I mean, JC was one of 'em, so they should have known better…
I hope that you are either joking or trolling.
I honestly don’t know. Word.
I’ll take a quick shot at it:
The Jewish view of the Messianic era is that it includes an end to war, poverty, bloodshed, hate, etc. Since Jesus did not bring any of those things (and in fact, his followers caused all of those things to happen to the Jews), then he can’t be the Messiah.
Uniball said:
They did know better. That’s the point.
David B got it. Those that did believe in his divinity became Christians, the rest remained Jews.
Jews do not believe the Messiah has come yet. (For the most part.)
This has been covered in other threads before, but here goes:
The first thing you need to do, Uniball is seperate the Christian idea of a Messiah (notice the capital M) and the Jewish idea of a messiah (lowercase m).
In Christianity (in most sects), the Messiah is the Son of God. He redeems you from sin and saves you from Hell. He is the son of a virgin and a necessary intermediary between man and God. He is part of a triune God, together with his Father and the Holy Spirit.
In Judaism, the messiah is a human being. Judaism categorically dismisses almost all of the ideas mentioned above:
[ul]
[li] Judaism dismisses the very idea of a Son of God.[/li][li] In Judaism, the messiah is a regular human being.[/li][li] In Judaism, no intermediary between God and man is necessary. In fact, praying to anyone or anything other than God is strictly forbidden.[/li][li] In Judasim, God is simply one. There cannot be a triune God.[/li][li] In Judaism, it is not the messiah’s job to save one from sin and Hell.[/li][/ul].
Now then, as to why Jews don’t accept Jesus as the human messiah, you simply need to look at the messianic prophecies. As curwin pointed out, Jesus did not fulfill all the prophecies (and there is no provision for a second coming). As such, Jesus is not the messiah.
Zev Steinhardt
Actually, it really does not matter what the “jewish people” think of Jesus. The dominant culture on the planet (for the most part) reveres Him as God. Arguably the second most dominant, the Islamic world, recognizes him as a prophet.
Given that Asia and Africa have for a long time been anti-Isreal (and, by extension, anti-Jewish) and Europe, from their press, has definitely turned against Isreal because of the latest Isreali-Palestinian confrontations. In the United States, well, we know what the far Right thinks of Isreal and anti-Zionism has always been a tenet of the Left. It is a classic part of Black culture to have antipathy against the Jews (have the Hispanics also adopted this prejudice?). Just about the only American group that I can think of that has the warm fuzzies for the Jews is the religous/fundamentalist Christians.
Religous bigots like David B. are the sure cure to end that (possibly tenuous) alliance. And then where will you be?
Merry Christmas, David B. Always glad to have a Christmas confrontation with a bigot.
Thanks. That was interesting.
Well, I guarantee you that David B. is now in a position to judge whether it’s enjoyable to have a Christmas confrontation with a bigot.
Way to keep that “Peace on Earth, Goodwill to Men” spirit alive, Mips.
Back to the original question, I second all that Zev said, and I’d add one more point: Jews don’t believe that God would lie. God told Israel, at Mount Sinai, what His Laws were – moral laws, ethical laws, ritual laws, and behavioural laws, among others. God said those laws were part of an eternal covenant.
Christianity says that those laws are now replaced by belief in Jesus, and that those laws (especially the ritual laws, but most classical Christians would also dismiss the ethical and moral laws as being secondary to belief in Jesus as God.)
Judaism takes God at His Word, and sees no reason to replace those laws. And views anyone who suggests replacing those laws as not a true prophet (since Deuteronomy says, specifically, whoever shows up and tell you to abandon the laws is not a true prophet.)
Now, in terms of bias against Israel (and Jews), let me note that it is not true that “It is a classic part of Black culture to have antipathy against the Jews.” To the contrary, during the 50s and 60s, the Jews allied with the blacks in the battle for civil rights, far more so than most other religious groupings. The antipathy is fairly recent, and is by no means universal among the black community.
Are you saying, Mipsman, that we Jews should worship Jesus “if we know what’s good for us”? Been there.
And BTW - it’s spelled Israel.
“In Judaism, no intermediary between God and man is necessary. In fact, praying to anyone or anything other than God is strictly forbidden.”
Perhaps I am mistaken, if so, I hope someone more conversant with Catholic teachings can enlighten me, but it is my understanding that in Catholocism no intermediary between God and man is necessary. In fact, praying to anyone or anything other than God is strictly forbidden. Catholics do have the option of asking saints to put in a good word for them but they praise only God and they make requests only of God.
“In Judasim, God is simply one. There cannot be a triune God.”
PIAMISIHSMCWCTCEMBIIMUT in Catholocism God is simply one. God is also three. This is called “The mistery of the Holy Trinity.”
“In Judaism, it is not the messiah’s job to save one from sin and Hell.”
PIAMISIHSMCWCTCEMBIIMUT in Catholocism it is not the messiah’s job to save one from sin and Hell. Nor was it Jesus’s job to save one from sin and Hell. That is each individual’s responsibility. Jesus redeemed humankind from original sin which is something different altogether.
“Judaism takes God at His Word, and sees no reason to replace those laws.”
PIAMISIHSMCWCTCEMBIIMUT Catholocism takes God at His Word bit believes He can change his mind.
Yeah, your reponses to Zev’s post are simply the basis of all sorts of theological debates. Since the Op was a question about why the Jewish people do no accept Jesus as God, the Jewish perspectives offered by Zev and Dex provide the answer. The fact that Christianity or any Christian denomination has a different understanding of the same points, while highlighting the disagreeement between Judaism and Christianity, does not really answer the question.
Sure Catholics believe pretty much what you have outlined, but that is not a counterargument to Jewish belief, just a difference of belief.
*::: sigh ::: *
I dunno, mipsman, posting three paragraphs of inaccurate invective in order to counter one smart-ass remark hardly seems to be carrying forth the message of Christmas. This thread does not need to go into Great Debates, there is enough factual information to keep it in General Questions, provided we stick to facts and leave out the hostility. (And, no, I don’t think that David B’s crack furthered the discussion, but it was a one-line shot from the perspective of someone who does not believe in God (from which would follow that JC was not God), so it hardly qualifies as an attack by a r “religious bigot.”
What the fuck is PIAMISIHSMCWCTCEMBIIMUT???
I think it means “Perhaps I am mistaken, if so, I hope someone more conversant with Catholic teachings can enlighten me, but it is my understanding that”, which can be gleaned from context. It is the longest single abbreviation I have ever seen or heard of. Yeah pulled it off with style. Bravo.
tomndeb, my responses to Zev’s post are simply the basis of all sorts of theological debates. Since the Op was a question about why the Jewish people do not accept Jesus as God, the Jewish perspectives offered by Zev and Dex provide the answer. The fact that Christianity or any Christian denomination has a different understanding of the same points, while highlighting the disagreement between Judaism and Christianity, does not really answer the question. I didn’t attempt to answer the question. I hope that is OK. I noticed that you didn’t attempt to answer the question in your post either.
I assume you are SMCWCTWCEM and that Catholics believe pretty much what I have outlined. If so, then my post was successful in pointing out apparent misapprehensions on the part of Zev and Dex about the beliefs of one major Christian denomination. I certainly never intended to make “a counterargument to Jewish belief” just as I wouldn’t make a counterargument to any belief, Christian, Muslim, Zoroastrian, or whatever, based purely on faith.
ACK! ACK!
WHAT THE FUCK IS SMCWCTWCEM, DAMMIT?!?!
Uniball, the answer to your last question is “someone more conversant with Catholic teachings who can enlighten me.”
I guess the best answers to your OP are:
“Judaism dismisses the very idea of a Son of God”
and
“Judaism takes God at His Word, and sees no reason to replace those laws. And views anyone who suggests replacing those laws as not a true prophet (since Deuteronomy says, specifically, whoever shows up and tell you to abandon the laws is not a true prophet.)”
Good enough for me.
quote: Originally posted by mipsman
Actually, it really does not matter what
the “jewish people” think of Jesus. The
dominant culture on the planet (for the
most part) reveres Him as God.
(Sorry; someday I’ll figger out how to do quotes correctly.)
My Methodist mother, who quite possibly believes she won’t make it into heaven because I rejected Christianity, took me quite aback recently when she expressed what I myself felt for many years: One of the problems with Christianity today is that many Christians emphasize Jesus to such an extent that they’ve forgotten about God.
IIRC from sunday school, Jesus is NOT to be revered “as God,” but rather as one aspect of the divine godhead. God, not JC, was the principal focus of worship (even if one can supposedly worship God only through JC.)
Judaism needs no intermediary in one’s relationship with God. Such an intermediary could become confused with or be made into God, and at the least could hint uneasily at the polytheism Judaism rejected. …Seems to me that this is well underway in some circles.