Until you run into that one person who thinks Roman History is awesome - and who feels some chemistry when she looks at you which you reciprocate - and is available.
Of course, you are now in the “highly unlikely” category.
From your list, I could care less about the guitar, running and exercise only matter because it implies you don’t sit like a lump playing hours of WoW, but the Roman History is interesting.
The thing is, there has to be some initial chemistry. And then the timing has got to be good. And no, it isn’t just “she doesn’t have a boyfriend” - sometimes women aren’t looking. Or they have something coming up in their lives and don’t want the complications of a relationship right now. And chemistry is so damn variable. I have a friend who gives off that “creepy stalker vibe” to me (he became my friend very slowly through other people - and him I don’t flirt with) - a girlfriend of mine has had a huge crush on him for years. And, for reference, he isn’t good looking, he barely holds a job, and his sense of humor is really strange. I’m not sure what any woman would see in him - but he dates. He has a friend who is really good looking, his family has money (he’s a grad student living off dad’s money), and in a single conversation seems completely dateable - but seldom gets a second date because he really isn’t interesting.
Exactly what I was trying to say. Just because YOU “get” social interactions don’t assume that a good talking to is all it will take to get someone else to “get it.” You can’t coach the deaf to hear or the blind to see (or those with dyscalculia to math).
Just so you know, it is very frustrating to be on the other end of such a talk.
Just to make it clear I am not in this boat really. I somehow stumbled into a wonderful marriage without ever being on a date in my life. So none of this is exactly pertinent to me personally. I’m more advocating for others like me who make up a significant portion of the “single and hating it” population.
But isn’t there a motivational issue to consider? I don’t get math, as you say. My brain just isn’t wired for it. But I also don’t *care *about math. Math doesn’t give me anything back. I don’t *want *to do math. Maybe I’ll ask you for help, but as soon as I hit the point where I don’t get something, I would prefer to drop the whole thing. When I go home later, I’ll happily forget all about doing math.
I’m happily clueless about math.
But isn’t it true that I already *do *care about [del]getting laid[/del] [del]sex [/del][del]love [/del][del]earlobes [/del]relationships? I mean, I’m already doing that stuff, even when it’s badly. When I go home, I still think about it, as opposed to math. I want to do it, and I will be doing it anyway. Why wouldn’t I benefit from advice on how to do it better? *Something *of value might get through my thick skull, surely?
Maybe some people really don’t care about this stuff, but they’re probably not in this thread to begin with. When you tell people: “Don’t give up!”, you don’t actually have to say that, they aren’t. And when you tell them: “Just give up!”, they still won’t. And when someone says: “I have basically given up”, they actually haven’t. Or they wouldn’t feel the need to say that so much. They would just be in some other thread, talking about something else.
But if I ask: “I know all about Roman history! I can list every Emperor from Augustus to Heraclius. I know the Punic Wars and the Late Republic like the inside of my pocket. Why don’t girls like me?”
… then that is a pretty stupid question, because there’s nothing sexy about that, intrinsically.
However, if I ask: “I’m a guitar virtuoso! Why don’t girls like me?”
That’s a more interesting question. Because a lot of girls do like a lot of guitar virtuosos.
If I wanted to take up a hobby in order to impress girls, and find a happy relationship, it would be silly to think that stamp collecting and guitar playing are somehow equal.
When someone says: “I’m a blood donor! Why don’t girls like me?”, then there are reasons. But when they say: “I run marathons! Why don’t girls like me?”, there are probably also reasons. But the reasons are of a different category entirely.
Some traits and activities are intrinsically attractive in ways that others just aren’t. They go on different resumes. People seem to be getting their resumes all mixed up.
But I would never make such an assumption. All I’m saying is that I’ve been in such a rut, eventually found my way out, and want to share what I learned with others. Particularly since the kind of comments people make in these threads sound just like what I would have said.
If someone can’t do it even with the right knowledge and cartload of willpower, well, at least they tried, and at least I tried to help.
I’m dubious though that a significant proportion of people are incapable of ever getting this.
We’re not talking about being the world’s funniest guy or anything. I really think basic conversation skills and understanding one or two things about human psychology are enough to initiate relationships. And from there things get easier as you’re gaining experience and getting comparatively clear feedback.
Sure, but that doesn’t mean that there’s something intrinsically sexy about guitar playing as opposed to Roman history knowing. (I’ll take the Roman history person. I could relearn what I used to know about Mesopotamia and together we could rule at parties! Or Jeopardy. Or something.) It just means it’s more socially desirable right now.
But there is. There really is. One is a “bad boy” thing, one is a “nice guy” thing. Or, in this particular case, probably just irrelevant.
I’ll leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out which is which. 100% of you will get the right answer. If you fetch me a caveman, he’ll get the right answer. A two year old would, too, if he could understand the question.
That would hardly be the case if they were somehow equal. It has to do with primal attraction. It’s not about social constructs.
I think if I was socialy inadequate and unhappy about my record in the relationship department, it would probably piss me off to hear people giving general, non-concrete, and yes, conflicting advice.
Like, are we supposed to just be ourselves? Or are we supposed to do things to intentionally impress the ones we’re interested in? And if it’s the latter, why isn’t this tantamount to “having an agenda”, which is supposedly a bad, creepy, shithead motivation? But if it’s the former, what do we do when “ourselves” isn’t attractive? What does “be yourself” even mean in the context of social interactions? Don’t we all perform when we’re with other people?
And when these kinds of questions get asked, the advice-givers get all pissy in response and say things like “this isn’t rocket science, bro. Stop arguing and just accept the wisdom I’m giving you.”
I dunno. Maybe the “wisdom” truly is received from the guys that can understand it. But I don’t see evidence of it. I see guys who have made it to the promised land of a Good Relationship who become convinced that they possess enough knowledge to advise others who haven’t been as successful. But I’m skeptical that that this advice actually helps the ones who need it the most. I don’t think a cat like Quasimodal* needs any more advice, at least from folks who don’t know him or what he may or may not be doing wrong. What is telling him to work harder going to do for him?
*I don’t mean to imply that Quasimodal is socially clueless or inadequate. I just chose him because he’s the only one who has been brave enough to come out as a guy having problems with relationships.
Fair enough. It doesn’t really sit perfectly with me either. Let’s try over.
OK, I just had a light bulb moment. Maybe it’s a misfire, but anyway:
When you’re making your list of “things that make me sexy”, such as the ones that we’ve seen a few of in this thread, a good test for whether something belongs on the list is probably simply how you feel about them. Or rather, how they make you feel when you do them.
I love Roman history knowing, but I don’t notice anything going on in the pants department when I do it. Playing the guitar? Yeah, I feel pretty hot when doing that.
Does blood donating make you feel sexy? Does it make you a little bit hot and bothered? Stick it on the list. If not, leave it off. Same for charity work, snake wrangling, battle fighting or quilting.
Robot Arm, you were talking about cookie baking. Do you feel sexy when you’re baking cookies? 'Cause I think that’s one where it can go both ways, depending on the person.
Someone who only cares about Roman history and nothing else is probably not too interesting. But Roman history as an example of a wide ranging intellectual curiosity seems to appeal to some women - like my wife.
Pre-internet when people met at college by going to mixers lots of women came to MIT mixers, and I doubt it was for our great physical attraction or social skills. Guys shouldn’t be ashamed of intelligence - it can be sexy. And it definitely works the other way too.
I think I would caution against trying to make (or rely on in any way) a “things that make me sexy” list. Because attraction isn’t about checking off enough boxes that your score is over 10 and therefore someone takes their pants off.
I love Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan plays the guitar. Bob Dylan is not sexy when he plays the guitar. (Okay, I’ve never met Bob Dylan, so I’m just guessing.)
There is no activity I can point to and say “That is a sexy thing to do.” If you’re attracted to someone, they might do calculus sexily. If you’re not, they might suck the chrome off a trailer hitch in the most boring and off-putting way imaginable.
I get your point, and in fact I even agree with it. Blood drives and playing guitar are very different things. But they just all seem like awful questions. I’ve been close friends with women since I was a pre-teen and none of them have thought the way your hypothetical man is thinking. Sure, if they meet somebody they really like, they might be excited that he shares her love of music or is really into nerdy historic things too. That’s not the same as saying, “I love history, why don’t women like me?”
If you want your hobbies to land you dates, I think more helpful questions would be like “I have been going to my model train group for 6 years. Why have I NEVER gotten a date out of it?” or “I love yoga class and there are tons of young women at the studio I go to. How can I ask one out?”
Ultimately though your interests need to be your interests, not skills you develop to appeal to women.
There is nothing primally attractive about playing a guitar. There may be more women who find something attractive about playing a guitar - or riding a motorcycle - or wearing a leather jacket - than those who find something attractive about Roman History, but its an individual woman thing. Some women like long hair - I think its gross. Some women like tattoos. My husband got one after 20 years of marriage to commemorate his dead brother, and I do NOT find it at all attractive, even on a man I dearly love - I have to block it out. Some women like guys who play in bands - the last thing I ever wanted was to spend my Friday nights in some bar watching my boyfriend play. The “bad boy” thing I like is a wicked sense of humor.
It isn’t the guitar. Its the sly/shy/killer smile. It the way they smell. The way they move - which some women find athletic grace attractive, some are charmed by clumsy awkwardness. The pitch of their voice. The expression in their eyes. And from there its whether you have things in common and enjoy each others company. And while there are social constructs that train us into some agreement that Chris Evans is hot, or that dating a guitar player is cool - what attracts each woman is a million variables that end up making each woman unique. You can play the odds - the guitar, money, and a great ass are probably going to be more attractive to more women than an Action Figure collection, a job delivering pizzas, and the physique of someone who can’t walk from the back of the Target parking lot - but out there someone finds even that attractive. Granted, she probably isn’t Gigi Hadid.
Well, yeah. I guess playing the odds is all I’m talking about. But it does help to know how to play the odds.
Well, that’s you. But that’s a data point. It doesn’t mean that it’s all random. I think Bob Dylan has done pretty well for himself in the dating department.