Bad news: there were women of both types back before the first tribe even knew there was another tribe around.
Good news: most guys have been able to find women who aren’t either of the above. And those guys who actually like the above types, hey, de gustibus…
I used to think like this. It turned out that my sample was skewed. It was all about the particular personality types that I was attracted to, as a result of my own screwed up personality and upbringing. There are lots of women out there living well balanced, drama-free lives; I just wasn’t attracted to them.
Isn’t this called “Being married”?
I’ll pile on a little, though not 100% against your point. The example you gave of the ‘chick’ who is essentially trading money for sex (and not a semi-humorous reference to a cynical view of marriage, but outright) is not typical AFAIK. OTOH what I do know? But on the third hand I know for sure you can expect heavy flak for implying that’s typical.
But just sticking with your first two sentences, there’s some truth to it IMO and other posters have mentioned this theme. Somebody said if a guy makes $30k/yr he can get a girlfriend. A full adult around here (high cost area)? I doubt it. At some level lack of good employment and/or prospects of such is a hindrance in romance. There’s no doubt about that. It’s pretty deep seated in society I’d say, directed more at males than females I’d also say, but presenting it as the moral fault of women is not realistic IMO. OK if a woman is seeking only very well off men, reasonably well off men can indulge themselves in condemning her moral inferiority, for all the good it does them (none). But one generally has to get out of one parents’ basement and earn a decent living to have good relationship prospects as a guy, that’s life (generally speaking, of course with exceptions as for any accurate general statement about people and society).
Yes to add in. Most of us hang out with people in our socio-economic bracket. My friends generally have a living wage. Let alone a partner. My frustration personally lies with that I’m a teacher, who earns a decent wage. Certainly enough for the basics (House /condo, car, vacation, general fun times in the city), yet it seems I’m beaten out by others with a lower wage quite often. According to StatsCanada my wage is decently above average. I often wonder what the perception is of a male elementary music teacher. Am I not “manly” enough? Just last week on Tinder I told a lady I was a teacher. And first response was “Like it?”…not awesome, or cool, or amazing. Just “like it?” as in “Who the F would ever do that?”. My one word reply was: Yes.
Unless you’re disfigured, morbidly obese, or otherwise well outside of the “norms” of appearance or presentability (including hygiene), then if you’re still lonely after several years of trying to connect with women, you’re either not really a nice person, or your standards are much, much too high.
Make an online profile, reach out honestly to women around your age, be decent, honest, and respectful, and eventually you’ll make some connections, some of which might lead to romance.
If you’re doing this but it’s not working, and you don’t have some hideous disease that causes constant flatulence or something like that, then you’re probably not actually being decent, honest, and respectful.
To be fair, I haven’t looked in a couple of years. But I’m wading in again and am getting some attention. I just honestly have the opinion of myself that based on my life habits (healthy, work ethic, lack of drama), I should be further along. But whatever, life is hard and every day is earned. Just keep working at it.
No word of lies…the two longest relationships I’ve been in we’re really I think abusive towards me. No I was not perfect in them. But I was never worth being cheated on, threatened with a knife, or humiliated in public. In fact I met my ex after three years…and she put me through the ringer again without provocation. I just breathed through it…it was a work situation so I just had to get though it ok for 30 minutes. I didn’t say anything bad or nasty, even though I was fuming underneath a calm exterior. At least it’s been two years since the last woman tore me apart, telling me how she liked me but kept pushing me away at the same time. I think I’m in healthier place to begin again.
Decent, honest, and respectful often gets taken advantage of IMHO. Especially as a guy, cause there’s a culture of “Men being wrong” out there. So we put up with lots of stuff maybe we shouldn’t have to. Hard to let down one’s guard after experiences like the above. But I’m going to try to keep doing the things you say.
Also this article spoke to me in a lot of ways:
Feel free to dump, or stop seeing, anyone who cheats, threatens, or humiliates/insults you. In fact, do so immediately – decent people don’t do that.
There are plenty of decent people out there who don’t behave that way. Sometimes you’ll get it wrong and date someone who’s not a decent person, but when you dump them as soon as you realize this, then you can move on and try to find those decent people out there. Do the same if someone is just stringing you along – I had a rule: make my interest clear and ask a woman out once – if she says no, then never do it again unless she gives you very strong indication to do so.
Back when I was single (I’ve been married almost 9 years now), I welcomed early rejection – it was a clear signal to just try again with someone else. And I quickly realized that unclear responses should be treated the same way as the clear rejections. Don’t waste your time with people who aren’t interested – they have that right, and you have the right to move on. Just spend a little time and effort on someone new, and if they don’t make it clear that they like you too, then move on.
Agreed. Reminders are good.
I agree with you. A “no” is the easiest thing to deal with. A “maybe” is a pain.
Helpful hint: either give people the benefit of the doubt on what they mean, or stop talking to them. Someone asked a basic question, and you read ‘who the fuck would ever do that’ into it, and responded with a terse, conversation-killing reply. Assume that they’re actually asking what they’re asking, and give a positive answer that continues the conversation - if they think it’s stupid, they’ll let you know soon enough, but if they’re neutral or interested then you can keep talking.
If your approach to dating includes a lot of exchanges where someone asks an innocuous question like ‘like your job?’ and you assume it’s an insult and petulantly give a one-word reply, the problem is definitely not your income or your job.
Decent, honest, and respectful aren’t what gets taken advantage of; it is being unwilling to stand up for yourself that is the real problem. That’s one of the major issues with the whole ‘nice guy’ phenomenon; there’s a willful blindness to anything but one narrow characteristic. The problem is not that you’re decent, honest, and respectful, the problem is that you’re not decent, honest with, or respectful to YOURSELF, and end up tolerating behavior that you would consider wildly unacceptable if a friend was telling you about it. You have to be honest about what condition you face (no going into denial that 'oh, it’s not so bad), you have to respect your own needs, happiness, and health, and you have to insist on decent treatment for you.
I’m not sure about that*. If the theme is not personally blaming people who don’t requite one’s romantic interest, I agree. Beyond that some blanket statement that what you ‘deserve’ in a relationship is there for the taking except if your ‘standards are too high’ or you’re ‘not as nice as you think’, I don’t agree. There’s also the possibility one runs in a strata of society where the predominant attitudes and values of potential romantic partners can validly be criticized on the whole. Though again I agree it’s any given potential individual partner’s right not to be interested for any reason.
The first two options have the benefit of being somewhat under one’s own control, ‘lower standards’ or ‘improve as a person’. It might be tricky to define how to really do either one, but in theory you can…change prevailing negative social norms, you can’t. And, the first two are painful ideas, the last a more comfortable idea, which often spells trouble. But it doesn’t mean the last one can’t be true. And it has a potential solution in looking outside that strata or crowd, to the extent that isn’t subsumed by ‘standards’ which I don’t it typically is. Discussion like this are typically full of unstated assumptions and restrictions about who ‘the field’ actually consists of from a given person’s POV.
*personal background is married 34 yrs, my wife terrific in every way IMO, no great success with women prior to that but we married pretty young.