When has the US ever had to pull Australia’s “butt out of a fire?”
Australia owes us nothing.
Go ahead Aldebaran. That tag is a modified line from South Park anyhow.
Thank you badmana
Wait. You know some Canadians that don’t go on and on about beating the US in 1812? The fact that there was no Canada rarely enters into it of course.
**That’s pretty damn snarky adaher. Should we Canadians hark about how we defeated the US in our only war? Should the US shun Russia and China even though they were old enemies?
**
Canada has never been truly threatened. Canada’s victories over the US have no bearing on the present. Australias’ security situation and their need for US protection has everything to do with the present.
When has the US ever had to pull Australia’s “butt out of a fire?”
Australia owes us nothing.
WWII. They were on Japan’s list for conquest. And they would likely have lost.
The Japanese General Staff thought otherwise. As the old cliche goes amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics. The invasion of Australia was an impossibility, and thats not my opinion its their contemporary assessment. The Japanese army considered such an invasion would require a minimum of 12 divisions, for which they had neither the immense quantities of shipping required nor the logistic capability to support them, even if they had the twelve divisions available which they did not. The Army high command regarded the concept as “a reckless undertaking far in excess of Japan’s capabilities” and a “ridiculous operation”. Australia was quite simply just too far away and far too big to be conquered by Japan. Its big. Really, really big. So what some Japanese would have liked to do is unimportant, only what they could do.
Chapter IX: Australia and the Lines of Communication
They were going to take New Guinea. You don’t think they would have advanced to Australia if they’d won there?
Not to mention that even if Japan hadn’t invaded Australia, being next to a Greater Japanese Empire would have forced them into a situation where they would not have any control over their own destiny. They’d have to constantly be appeasing Japan.
To answer the OP; ‘Do non Americans feel suckered by the war on terrorism’ : I, for one don’t.
It was high time something was done about terrorists. 9/11 was only the last drop that made the bucket overflow.
What I think is unimportant, the Japanese themselves had rejected the idea as not possible.
As for proximity to a greater Japanese empire the only circumstances in which that could occur would be the historical one in which the Japanese invaded territories to our north, said territories belonging at the time to either the US or assorted European powers. Japan still ends up at war with the US or the British Commonwealth or both and these powers will defend their own possessions as is their national interest. As part of the British Commonwealth Australia will fight. Appeasement isnt an issue any more then gratitude or other sentiment is.
I’m not so much talking about gratitude as having the sense to recognize that alliance with the US is necessary for your security. Asia is a powder keg and Australia is in danger if any Asian war starts up. And alliances work both ways. You help us out when we need you and we help you out when you need us. Some of our “allies” seem to think that alliance just means US comes to their aid when they get attacked, not vice versa.
Fortunately your government doesn’t see it that way. Australian governments have always stood by the US and the alliance.
Australia’s strategic environment is actually one of the most benign in the world. We have no natural enemies, no land neighbours, a continent to ourselves, and all our important infrastructure and population centres are a long way away from any possible adversary. Our climatic conditions and sheer size in themselves make us unconquerable by any regional power. We could quite easily do without the “security” you offer us which in practical terms has meant we have repeatedly sent our young men to die in wars on your behalf, wars versus powers that have threatened us not one iota I may add. Rather then save us from wars our alliance with the US simply guarantees we will get dragged into them.
Other then in the latest fiasco, NZ has always suppotred all its allies. We were, in a strange twist of time zone crap, the first country to declare war on Germany in WW2.
We have never needed anyone to save us but have always contributed to wars that had nothing to do with us. I have an Uncle who is a Veitnam vet (yes we were there!) We are never there in huge numbers because we don’t have huge numbers, Shit the american Armed force is bigger then the population of our counrty.
We have had a nuke free policy since the early 80’s, all of a sudden Mr Bush wants to make that an issue. We are a democratic country. We will not change our policies because they are “problematic to relations”.
We didn’t join the coalition of the willing, we do now have troops in Iraq. Not many because we don’t have many.
America has allies who give when they are not at risk themselves. Mr Bush needs to say thank you not dangle trade agreements.
Then dissolve the alliance. And when China comes knocking, fight as hard as you can for as long as you can. We’ll be rooting for you.
Yes because other then the fact we made Chinese Gooseberries world famous the Chinese have a huge interest in us.:rolleyes:
Well we are a popular immigration destination but that’s hardly scary.
I agree that something had to be done... its how the US is "doing something" about terrorism that pisses us off. Now if some legislation isn't to draconic and helps stop terrorism it doesn't bother me or most brazilians.Should China come-a-knocking this very day, the terms of the alliance would be triggered. ANZUS is not a guarantee of military support, its nothing more then a commitment to consult. Lets be very clear about this, the US would not fight WW3 for cheap sentiment over a scrap of paper that commits you to do nothing more then ‘consult’, and you would have rocks in your head if you did. You will fight if its in your national interest to do so and I would expect nothing more, and if its in your national interest then the existence or otherwise of a scrap of paper is unimportant. And yes I’m all for scrapping it.
Yet Aus and NZ have always been there with very little national interest.
How old are you adaher? I can’t work it out. On the one hand, you debate like a teenager, yet on the other, the things you say make you sound like a cold-warrior.
“Asia is a powderkeg”?
“when China comes knocking, fight as hard as you can for as long as you can.”?
As a matter of fact, China came knocking just last week. They wanted A$30bn worth of natural gas. Which we sold to them. Wasn’t much fighting involved, as far as I can tell.
And the last time they came knocking was only last year, which involved A$25bn worth of gas.
And Germany was more interested in trade than war in 1913.
Things can change rather quickly, and it’s good to have insurance. You do it for your health, your car, your home…
But you wouldn’t take out an insurance policy on your country?
Make no mistake. China is an aggressive country led by a dictatorship. They have already fought four neighbors, completely conquering one. Although they have no avowed territorial interest in Australia, there are all kinds of situations where Australia could get drawn into a wider Asian war, such as one between China and India, who have had issues and have already fought one war.
China also has issues with Malaysia and Indonesia over treatment of Chinese minorities. Any attacks against those nations would affect Australia a great deal and place you in a position of answering to the Chinese if the US left you behind.
Which is all moot because regardless of national interest, we will come to your aid if you are attacked. We wouldn’t let Taiwan be attacked, much less Australia. You have been there for us, we are there for you.
There’s nothing wrong with having a historical perspective, except when your thinking is completely rooted in the past and ignores the present.
Germany has been an aggressive country in the past. So has Japan. So has China. But none of them are now.
The number one global aggressor at the moment isn’t China, it’s the good ol’ U.S. of A.
It matters not one whit that the aggression may be “democratic” rather than “dictatorial”, those concepts only have relevence when discussing internal affairs.