That is a good and fair question. The short answer is that I used to be one of those people, following the principals and going through the motions, sometimes picking and choosing what I wanted to follow, molding His teachings to my desires. From that experience I know that back then I would have considered myself a Christian, looking back I now would not consider myself one at that time (or at least a backslidden Christian).
Or as pointed out earlier, the term Christian can refer to anyone who claims to be one regardless of their true beliefs, so it that respect yes I was a Christian but not a follower of Jesus at that time.
If you are referring to a preacher, then this does not apply, I will not blindly take someone’s word on the scriptures, I will take the Bible as source text.
If you are referring to the Bible itself being second hand information, I have found to my satisfaction that the NT is at least accurate enough to be useful today to reach God, the spiritual gifts are real and true. Since the NT is true as far as I’m concerned, and the NT states that Jesus used the OT (IIRC every book of the OT except one is referenced in the teachings of Jesus in the NT), I would have to assume that the OT is also true.
Agreed, and I do look into other peoples translations and see if I can agree with them. Two interesting cases on this board, One poster has presented the idea that people can have the Holy Spirit indwelling them without them knowing Jesus (but still having Him) - it is a interesting idea and takes a bit unusual way of interpretation but it’s something I can’t dismiss as unscriptural and something I continue to research in my readings. Another poster takes only a certain aspect of the scriptures and dismissing/ignoring the rest, something I see as scripturally unsound.
So when Jesus come to you and tells you about the free gift of eternal life with no pain or sadness ever, you want to ask how to delay death in this world? And if you are not going to accept Him telling you about eternal life why should anyone believe Him about a cure for aids?
Even if all doctors believed as Kanicbird does that there’s no point in extending life, they would still see a need to relieve suffering. Modern medicine has made great strides in relieving suffering, especially when dealing with mental illness.
Damn right I will. When I run into any type of salesman, or used car dealer, or vacuum cleaner salesman, I check their stories for logical and mathematical consistency. If someone is trying to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge, isn’t a good idea to ask to look at the deed first?
A cure for AIDS does more than delay death, it reduces fear and suffering. Do you think that’s a bad thing? If God wants me to believe, he needs to do some 'splaining. I don’t expect to ever run into god, since I don’t have a fantasy prone personality. But all those who chat with god seem to get out of it is “god loves me. Be nice to one another. etc. etc.” Hell, if I eat nachos too late at night, they tell me the same thing.
Carl Sagan once wrote how odd it was that people talking to space aliens never came away with any checkable facts. I’m just holding God to the same standard.
If God made me, he made me skeptical, so he should have no expectation of me turning into an ass-kisser at this late date.
Salesman? I thought Yeshua Bar Yosef was supposed to have been a carpenter.
Damn straight. Any god who appears to you personally and can’t overcome your skepticism and convince you of their deity status is a pretty pathetic god.
If people don’t believe DT about Jesus’ message of eternal life how are they going to believe DT telling them how Jesus said to cure AIDS.
There is a worldly point to it and a spiritual point. They are not necessarily the same thing.
It’s not about me, it’s about my Father God and His Son. My life is not my own, I surrendered it to the Lord Jesus and my life belongs to Him. It would be wrong for me to take a life that didn’t belong to me.
The goal is not to better myself, but to advance His kingdom on earth. To this goal even His only Son suffered horribly.
Because assuming I had such knowledge it could actually be tested and proven to work, or not. Convincing them to actually try would be hard, since in the real world there isn’t any God to hand out revelations about cures or anything else, so claims of such revelations can and are casually dismissed as worthless. Unless they “prove” someone’s religious delusions, naturally.
Only fools believe religious revelations. The fact that there are millions of fools makes it no less foolish.
Indeed. And the business sucked for years. But that super-salesman Paul became head of marketing, and things picked up. He was quite an expert at removing disincentives to buying the product. The Romans like their shellfish? Sure, 1,000 years of Kosher laws go right out the window. Insurance salesmen are known for driving the hearse up to the back door, Paul showed prospects the gates of hell. I don’t buy the product, but I’ve never disputed his marketing skills.
So if Jesus gave you the cure for AIDS, perhaps some refined produce of a rainforest tree and you went around telling people about this and the source of this information how would the public look at you?
DT has it exactly right. It’s not that religious claims are hard to believe that’s the problem. That the flow of time changes with velocity is far more incredible than a deity creating the universe. It’s the lack of hard evidence. Having access to information that it would be impossible to get in any natural way would be a strong argument for the supernatural. Ask yourself why it is that those claiming contact with god come away with blurry prophecies and stale truisms? Do Bible stories resort to these? No way - the people who wrote that bit of fiction knew that strong evidence was required. Did Moses tell the fleeing Israelites to wade here? No, he divided the waters. A 21st century Moses would say swim for it, and then say that 10% of the people having made it was proof of god.
What a great use of free will and independent intelligence. Good thing you believe your god gave them to you.
My gosh, that makes so much sense! I see it all now, it… no, just kidding. It sounds just as silly as when I first managed to look at it from a different perspective. Really. You believe an all powerful being tortured his only son, who happened to be the all powerful being, in order to ‘advance his kingdom’ in a place he all powerfully created? I’d try thinking about it a little more if I were you.
If you had hard evidence of the supernatural wouldn’t that make it the natural?
God has told us how to look for him and He said that your not going to come to Him by being wise in worldly ways.
Some who claim contact with God are deceived and either doing so in the flesh or receiving information from a demon. The information they have to give is not complete and usually fuzzy, the common fortune teller is a great example. Real prophecy from God is usually a lot different and concrete, but may apply to the spiritual world or the physical one or both, so it does get complex.
You are referencing OT prophecy, such as parting of the reed sea, I do consider this happened in a different time (as I have said before Jesus split time). Look at NT prophecy, Paul made one that the ship they were on would be distroyed and not a single live will be lost, these are the type that happen in our time.
Many people say so. If I define the supernatural as exceptions to existing and real physical laws, I’d call it the supernatural still, but it’s no big deal what it’s called.
My example is quite the opposite. Remember Moses and the staff and the water. God was mad at Moses for striking the rock, leaving it open for some to say that water came from the striking, not from God’s miracle. If I studied these items, and got an answer, I could claim I was inspired, but a skeptic would say my mind did it. If I got the answer without studying, it would be a more convincing miracle. So, this would be coming to God by being ignorant in worldly ways.
Ah, so you agree that most of those who claim to have talked to God haven’t. Hey, if I could chat with the devil, and got the same evidence, that would still indicate the existence of God. Maybe that’s why the devil hasn’t visited me either.
As an advertising tool for Christianity, no doubt. Assuming that I admitted where I got it, which I wouldn’t. Real or not, I consider Christianity to be exceedingly evil and would never do anything to help it.
So there’s no point in modern medicine, then?