Someone made an offhand comment to me insinuating that the French have had a long dislike for the Jews. Is this totally unfounded, or is their some historical or contemporary evidence?
As far as I can tell, no. There has been a lot of violence in synogogues in recent weeks in France, which has been reported in US media. It is thought to be related to the Israeli-Palestine situation, and not towards Jews in general. The French government has recently taken down the barriers preventing cars from parking near public buildings (schools, mayor’s offices, etc), but has provided beefed up security to Jewish centers and synogogues.
Further, there has also been violence against Arab shops, a firebombing in a Muslim butcher’s shop which went (as far as I can see) unreported in US media.
So, in answer to you, no, I don’t think so. There is still a thriving Orthodox Jewish area in Paris, and I’ve seen nothing there to indicate any public sentiment against Judaism.
They dislike American Jews, because they are American.
The right-wing nationalistic parties have a lot of support in France, and they hate anyone who isn’t French. That would include Jews I guess…
Gp
Maybe they need to dig up Marc Bloch and have a chat with him.
the CIA Fackbook. France is 90% Roman Catholic.
the subject of Catholic v. Jew is long and bloody.
You take it from it there
Other ‘they don’t look like us’ types are probably subject to similar hater
And you know this how? I mean, what do you base this opinion on?
Does Jerry Lewis count?
It would be more accurate to say that some of the French dislike Jews. The leader of the French National Front, Jean-Marie Le Pen, has regularly been accused of anti-Semitism.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_987000/987419.stm
Support for the National Front has fluctuated over the years and it has, at times, been one of the more significant minor parties in France. Some of its support undoubtedly draws on popular anti-Semitism, but there are many other reasons why some French voters have supported it. This Anti-Defamation League article, dating back to 1997, speaks of ‘a recent poll’ which found that only 4 percent of voters agreed with Le Pen’s anti-Semitic comments. Make of that what you want.
http://www.adl.org/international/LePen-4-support.html
One can also argue that there is a long tradition of such anti-Semitism in French politics. The usual example to cite is the Dreyfus Affair, which does show that, again, some Frenchmen were anti-Semitic in the late nineteenth century. The problem is to decide whether such anti-Semitism was exceptional within the wider European context of that period. Some historians would argue that it existed simply because such views were widespread throughout Europe. My impression is that France did have a particular problem and its own distinctive tradition, but one should not overstate this. That tradition is one which has been a feature of French politics, mostly on the margins, ever since and is one which Le Pen continues to draw inspiration from.
Unsurprisingly, the insinuation mentioned in the OP is the sort of argument which can only be true if one takes care to qualify exactly what one means.
I’m not that person, but I’m guessing it’s based on the ‘fact’ that the french dislike all merkins, jew or not.
I thought it was a joke, like all the anti-french jokes on the Simpsons.
Concerning the 90% of french being roman catholics :
Maybe 90% of french people have been baptized or somesuch. But on the overall, faith is dwinkling in France. The average french “catholic” would enter a church only for marriages and burials and for touristic purposes. I personnally know only two persons who go to church on a somewhat regular basis (by regular basis, I mean once a month or so). A lot of people believe in “something”, no clearly defined and which could include some sort of God, but couldn’t care less about catholic church teachings. There’s actually a long history of anti-catholicism in France, since the Republic has historically had to fight the catholic church to establish itself. Though now this anti-catholicism has been dwinkling as much as the said religion itself.
Now, being a historically catholic country could be related to an antisemitic history/background, whatever. I just wanted to point out that this 9O% catholic statistic is very misleading if the reader believes, reading that, that 90% of people here actually buy the catholic doctrine (or have any interest in it altogether), attend masses, etc…
As for history, there are some obvious historical evidences of antisemitism in France, The Dreyfus case and Vichy government being the most obvious and well known examples. Is there currently a rampant anti-jewish feeling in France? I don’t think so, since I very seldom hear any antisemitic statement (as opposed to, for example, anti-arab statements), except amongst the immigrated “arab” population, where the usual rhetoric about Jews dominating everything is still relatively common. However, antizionism is very common in the french population (and I know that some people take as an article of faith that antizionism=antisemitism, but I totally disagree on this point). Now, I’m not Jewish, so I’m not in an ideal position to talk about the prevalence of antisemitism in this country.
However,apart from the current situation, there has been other attacks against synagogues, desacration of jewish graves in cemeteries, etc… in the past years. How this would compare with the situation in other countries, I don’t know. These attacks tend to be attributed to young, unemployed, etc… muslim immigrants (more exactly 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants), but I heard yesterday on the radio a member of some youth Jewish organization stating that in his opinion, the recent attacks could be more related to real antisemitic groups, which would ride on the current anti-Israeli feelings and would expect their acts to be attributed to another part of the population (namely overheated youth muslims). IIRC, the great rabbin of France recently released some public statement about France not being a an antisemitic country, but it hardly means his opinion is shared by the average french Jew.
Concerning the extreme-right parties (actually mostly the “Front National”). There’s certainly a tradition of antisemitism in these parties. Now, since they became “populist” parties, they deny this antisemitism, but some statements made in the past in particular by their leader Jean-Maris Le Pen make obvious that antisemitism is still quite prevalent amongst their leaders/theoricians. However, I don’t think people give them their votes for this reason. It’s quite obvious that what appeals for popular vote is actually their anti-arab, anti-immigrant, etc…stance. Now, that’s also means that these voters don’t really care about antisemitism being still well alive in these parties. But honestly, I don’t think that for most of these voters it’s actually obvious. A lot of them tend to belong to popular classes living difficult lives, not very educated (and a lot of former communist voters, as strange as it could appear, but populism is populism) and I wouldn’t expect them to think deeply about the philosophy of right-wing parties past the “everything would be fine if there weren’t so much “arabs” living in the neighborhood”. Now, they have also a “traditionnal” electorate, educated, well-off, and including for instance some traditionnalist catholics but it’s not this tiny part of the population who allowed people like Le Pen to become important political figures.
That is "common knowledge" in the U.S.
The quote goes on to say that it isn’t necessarily true, but that is the impression Americans have. It is similar to the fact that some Europeans think that every American is acquainted with movie stars or that we all ride horses. Or we all have guns.
Actually, some of the reports I have seen blame friction between France’s large Muslim population if North African origin and Jews for much of the violence. But for the most part, that’s hearsay.
Now France has an interesting history when it comes to attitudes to Jews. To France’s credit, it was the first European nation to really ‘emacipate’ Jews during the revuolution in the 1790’s and grant them full citizenship. (By emancipate I don’t mean release from slavery, but from inferior status). Emperor Joseph of Austria attempted to do so earlier but was not fully successful. Also France was the second or third destination for the Jewish migration from Eastern Europe in the late 1800’s. Many French Jews are descendants of Russian or Polish Jews. Many famous French people were or are from this background (Marc Chagall for instance).
On the other hand France had the “Dreyfuss affair” of the 1890’s, and the Vichy regime of the 1940’s are not easily forgotten by many Jews. But I don’t know if French people can be really singled out among all Europeans for really ‘hating Jews’.
[disclaimer]It is always unfair to say that Group X is Y. Blacks are … Jews are… Chinese are… [/disclaimer]
Still French society as a whole has a long history of being very antisemetic. Well, really hating anything that is not in the mainstream identity as French. Jews are just convienent. It is in this sense that the fact that Catholic faith is weak is irrelevant: Catholic identity is part of being truly French. Let us give a little more detail to the history referenced already:
At the time of the Dreyfuss affair, 1894, the French Catholic Church (okay, the whole Church) was virulently antisemetic. And while France was the first European country to give Jews (officially, anyway) equal rights, Jews were despised both by the Right (who had helped bring about the Damascus Blood Libel in 1840) and by Left-wing socialists who painted all Jews as Rothschilds. But sure, other places were just as bad - there were pograms in Russia afterall.
Not much later, the Vichy regieme exceeded Nazi expectations. They were enthusastic accomplices, targetting first non-nationalized Jews and then nationalized ones for deportation to death camps. As the Nazis felt that Jews were an affront to Aryan purity, so did the French feel that Jews threatened French cultural purity.
I fear that it is not much different today. The attacks (exclusively from disenfranchised Arabs upon Jewish targets) were vigourously ignored by the French government until very recently. The Simon Weisenthal Center describes it as a deafening silence. Initial responses implied some Jewish culpabilty (as referenced in cuate’s post) and called for “restraint on both sides”, despite the absolute lack of Jew on Arab violence. (unless one presumes that the one Muslim butcher bombed was a Jewish reprisal) Only now have Jewish targets been offered some protection. Afterall, French Jews aren’t really French. If one other wants to kill a different other, what do the French care? The fewer the better.
I don’t know if it is Jew-hating or self-love, but it is historically consistent.
That is nonsense. For many many years, the police has been protecting the synagogues, etc…each time there has been attacks against Jewish buildings , or mere suspicions that such attacks could occur, due to the international climate. My high school was situated in the Jewish district (the Marais) and I’ve been living for several years in another Jewish area in the north of Paris. There’s a synagogue 50 meters down the streeet, actually. I’ve seen the police on protection duty many many times. This statement is plain untrue.
I would also like to know what french political leaders exactly made statements implying a Jewish culpability and when. The only example I can think of is a minister, at the beginning of the 80’s, who made a famous comment after the bombing of a Jewish restaurant stating at some point that “innocent people were killed too” (refering to bypassers) or somesuch. This comment made the headlines, was condemned by everybody and the said minister apologized. I’m pretty certain you’re refering to that occurence. But one example doesn’t make a rule (Except if France was the only country ever where some political figure made a “slip of tongue” who had an antisemitic meaning. Is it the case?).
Picking an isolated example during the last 20 years, and stating that it’s the way things are handled in France is nonsense again.
clairobscur
You are spot on. Bravo. It’s important that these sort of nonsenses be sorted out and be shown to be mythical, otherwise, they quickly become perceived as fact.
I think if we’re going to go by broad statements of “x disliking y” a heck of a lot more French are against Arabs and North Africans that Jews. When I was living in France I heard people make comments about all of those groups, but the grand majority were against Arabs and North Africans. Still, anti-Semitism was there. (This was Lyon, by the way, which has not adjusted to the influx of newcomers as well as some other parts of France.)
And if you want to look at the Vichy puppet regime during WWII- well, about 25% of France’s Jews were deported this time. This is a relatively lower number compared to some other countries, but it’s a bit deceptive. You have to realize that France’s Jews were the best integrated in Europe. If the French government hadn’t given the Germans names of French Jews and started rounding them up- before they were asked, by the way - the Germans would have been hard pressed to find Jews to ship away.
And then during the war it’s estimated that 10% of the country was actively collaborating and just under 10% was in the resistence, and the rest were sprawled between in shades of gray. These things are inherently difficult to measure, but I think it’s common enough sentiment that the Vichy regime was recieved the way it was because of a popular feeling of anti-Semitism at the time.
The election this year should be able to give better numbers about how many people support the Front National, but I believe the figure is from 5-8% of the population. The party itself is anti-semitic, yes, but it’s the anti-immigration platform of it that draws people. (France for the French is the basic summation.)
There’s also a long discussion to be had about the inherent racism of french job opportunities, but that’s an entirely different thread.
When I visited France during December two years ago, there was a moving Menorah that went to different sections of Paris on each night of the holiday. The only problem was that the location of the Menorah on each night was kept hidden until the last moment. Finding it was a matter of pure luck. I am not sure what to make of the preceding instance, but it can’t be good.
I think that can be explained by the stereotype (not necesarily false) that the french dislike everyone.
‘everyone’ includes Jews I guess.