Do the majority of Christians know how offensive the word 'sinner' is?

Great Debates
1

I don’t start many GD threads. Please don’t hit me.

As a non-religeous person I find the term ‘sinner’ deeply offensive. It is on a par with being called ‘rapist’ or ‘murderer’.

I hear the term merely means ‘imperfect’ and that the term ‘original sin’ simply refers to the fact that humans are fundementally imperfect (am I wrong). Being told you are imperfect is not quite so offensive.

Do most people who use the term for others know how offensive it sounds? Or are most of the users believing that the person they are saying it to knows that they are being told they are imperfect.

(I used to be offended by being told I am ‘going to hell’, but now that I think about it, why should I be offended by it if I don’t believe it to be true?)
Am I also being presumptuous in saying that most non-religious people find it as offensive as me?

2

I’m an atheist, but if someone calls me a “sinner” I normally laugh at them. It’s just silly-sounding to me. But offensive? No.

3

I am only offended if I dont deserve it ! :slight_smile: Since anything beyond breathing and surviving is a sin to some wackos… I must “deserve” it usually.

4

Heh. My first responce when I saw the title was to think “well, they sure don’t mean it as a compliment”. I think in some cases it is actually ment to be offensive. Such as: “Repent! For you are a SINNER!!” But as a firm athiest I don’t think you should take offence. It’s about as importnant as being called “un-cool” by some social group you don’t want a part of anyway.

5

Some Christian will come along shortly and say you shouldn’t be offended because we’re all sinners. The Christians are just saved from their sins while the rest of us have to fry like bacon.

To be fair, not all Christians go around calling people sinners and many will accept the premise that humans are morally imperfect with humility, not with sanctimony. You generally don’t hear those Christians employ the term “sinner” outside of their own community of Christians, wher they use it to remind each other (and themselves) of their responsibility to remain humble and non-judgemental.

Like any other group, the ones who are the most vocal tend to be the biggest pricks.

6

It only has meaning in their context, not yours.

7

I think part of the reason so many non-Christians find the word “sinner” offensive is because it has been so misused. They do this in a couple of different ways.

The first, and I think probably the most common way is to use the word “sinner” to mean “bad person”. Of course, in their view, a sinner is someone who does such horrid things as dance, play cards, have the occasional beer…

The second way, less common, but infinitely more annoying, IMO, is to use the word sinner to mean “non-Christian”. It is a means of differentiating “us” from “them”, and “them” is bad.

Interestingly, I’ve never heard a Catholic use the word “sinner” in either of these ways. It always seems to be fund’ist Protestants who do it. They seem to have this mindset that the mere fact that they are Christians automatically makes them a good person, and if someone is not a Christian, then they are automatically a bad person. Catholics, by and large, don’t seem to have this mindset (although there are exceptions, my paternal grandmother being a notable one.)

Of course, the most commonly said prayer in Western Catholicism, the Hail Mary, ends up with the words "holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, amen.

Then there is the Jesus Prayer, which is a Greek Orthodox/Eastern Rite Catholic prayer which is becoming increasingly popular among Latin Rite Catholics (I’m extremely fond of it myself)- "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Kind of puts “sinner” in a different perspective, doesn’t it?

8

I know that most christians are nice people and don’t use the term. I did not mean to imply that it is a common christian thing to call non-christians a sinner. I am just wondering if even those who don’t use it know how non-christians perseive it.

9

Hey, sometimes the truth hurts.

But realising that one is a certain is only half of the Christian message. An indignity should be immediately compensated - vastly compensated - by the Good News that Jesus Christ already freed us from the consequences of sin through His death on the cross. You’re talking as if the Christian message is negative, but -1 (offense at being called on a sinner) plus infinity (the gospel) turns out to be a positive number indeed.

UnuMondo

10

Oops, sorry. That should read “But realising one is a sinner is only half of the Christian message.”

UnuMondo

11

Two replies snook in. my last reply was to Diogenes’s post.

I also can’t seem to spell persieve.

Percieve?

12

Well, yes – as Thea and Diogenes point out, a primary element in the most common brands of mainstream historic Christianity is for the putative Christians to recognize themselves as sinners, that is, those who have, do, or will if given the time and chance, stray from the fullness of Godliness, and to humbly seek the Grace to deal with that. Too many Christians seem to conveniently skip that.
But "sinner, to me, is one of those terms that only has the power granted to it by the person to whom it is addressed. “I’m a sinner? Well, so are you, preacher-man. And yo mama. Guess we all have to deal with it.”

13

Perceive.

14

UnuMondo Sounds good. So when it is being used in real world situations the user is being naughty by only giving half the christian message.
By the way the ‘truth’ (we are imperfect) doesn’t hurt. It’s the implication I have (perhaps incorrectly) read from the word hurts.

(I know you were joking about the truth thing. I just wanted to let it be known that I for one am ok with being told I am imperfect, perhaps even a bad person in some ways)

In future (and already) I know not to react badly to such things, but when I was much younger I found things like that offensive.

15

This still contains the highly offensive implication that any other religion but Christianity is sinful…or at least false.

Perceive.

16

It once struck me that technically, to Jews I’d be considered a gentile or a goyim, and to Muslims, I’d be an infidel. Never bothered me.

17

Thea Logica hit the nail on the head, I think. While most evangelical Protestants would be quick to protest that they are indeed sinners just like the people they preach to, the difference being that they have accepted Christ and their sins are forgiven, there’s still a sense of “I’m Chevy Chase, and you’re not” to the way they present the whole sin-and-repentance issue.

That’s one main reason why I avoid discussing sin as much as possible.

But to get down to the nitty gritty: Allow me the presumption, for this post, that Jesus did indeed exist and knew what He was talking about, that He indeed taught with authority. (“Sin” has no meaning in a non-theist context; there are things that are wrong by a humanistic ethic, but they can’t be sins, because there is no Lawgiver/Judge above humanity to declare them contrary to His or Her ethics.)

Okay, Jesus taught to aspire to nothing less than perfection. “Be you perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect.” “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and all thy soul, and all thy mind.” Utter perfection. All the time.

It’s an ideal, a goal to shoot at. And no matter how good our efforts, we will inevitably fall short of it.

The Hebrew for “falling short” is chet, I’m told. The Greek is hamartia. Both are rendered into English as “sin.”

Note that we’re using the singular. Both Catholics and Protestants are fond of coming up with laundry lists of particular sins, as though the Bible were God’s Penal Law, and you could be guilty of Attempted Blasphemy in the Second Degree, or Conspiracy to Commit Sloth, or Aggravated Fornication.

It’s not that, per se. Sin is falling short of the ideal to which we’re called and to which we each in our own way strive, of being the best individual person we can be.

From this, I can say we’re all sinners. But the only individual of whom I have a right to call a sinner is me. Anything else is sitting in judgment on another – and that, says Jesus, is a sin, and one punishable by being judged in the same manner as one judges. For this reason, it’s only a completely selfish act if I judge others with mercy and compassion, in love – because that’s how I want to be judged.

Maybe throwing the word “sinner” out entirely is the right thing to do. Let’s go back to the Greek.

You’re all Hamartians! Repent!

:wink:

18

I’m not even reading this farce. Yes, to call someone else, or yourself, a sinner, is inutterably offensive. Idiot fucking Christians don’t seem to have any idea how they sound to normal people.

19

Nitpick: “Goyim” is plural. You’d be a goy.

20

Christians are supposed to confess their own sins, to the Lord, and to those against whom they have committed sins. I can’t seem to find the part where we are supposed to go out and call anyone names.

Christians are sinners, every one of us, and we have assurance of this from The Lord Himself. You will have to take my word for it; some of us are assholes, too.

Tris