I am not proposing to debate the truthfulness of this proposition.
I am throwing that idea out there because I’m curious as to whether or not it’s a widespread opinion in certain religions. One of my co-workers threw that argument out at me, and it struck me as so far off base that it would be odd he held it.
So, here’s the poll.
Do you know Christians or other religious persons who hold that sinners commit sin due to their hatred of a higher power, rather than the more obvious reasons for sin that might come to a layman?
Sorry if I stuck this in the wrong forum. I couldn’t decide where it went.
… I’m guessing IMHO,or more likely Great Debates. I’m sure a mod will be along to move it shortly.
As to the OP, I’ve met a few individuals who espouse this view, i.e. they sin because they hate God or conversely, love Satan. Mind you the definition of what constitutes a sin varies widely, but to these folk generally means anything that feels good. These tend to be the same people who respond to any criticism of their political party by asking why you hate America. The best response is a hearty STFU or a simple :rolleyes: .
Yup. I meant to put this in IMHO, I just got confused when posting. D’oh.
I don’t recall hearing this concept before, at least not in these words. I always thought that sinners sin because they/we are imperfect humans with lots of weaknesses.
That doesn’t cover all of it, of course, but I think it’s a start.
IMHO the statement is, in itself, simply foolish. Who would seriously “sin” if they thought there was anything like a god as proposed by the various christian religions. How can you hate what you’re sure doesn’t exist.
Now what I do see as possible is the occasional “sin” as an in your face FU directed toward true believers. The TBers thinking of themselves as the “chosen people” might confuse this with hating god.
Or, as I think about it, the accusation by the TBers my be a FU directed to people who piss them off.
Just my $.02, YMMV, and please don’t hurt me.
Bull dookey.
Close enough.
I think sinners sin because sinning is fun.
Qualification: raised Methodist, now atheist.
In my church the general teaching was that people sin because either a) they are weak, or b) the devil tempts them.
I don’t think anyone does it to get back at an omnipotent being.
This is a very interesting question.
But it is answered everyday when we see idiots choosing guns over reason, road rage, murder for beer, rape for power, and all the other petty and outrageous importunities.
True evil has already made its choice. It will always encourage sin just to keep a hand in. All is lost, so go for broke.
It is an end game strategy, full of sound and fury … signifing nothing.
jeez I meant - signifying
That’s fixable.
I’ve never actually heard the claim that sinners sin out of a hatred for God. (There have occasionally been cases, usually in fiction, where a character sets out to “spit in God’s eye” by sinning, and I could certainly see the possibility of some person somewhere acting that way, but that is hardly a common event.)
The Greek word that we translate as “sin” is hamartia (’[symbol]amartia[/symbol]) which originally meant “missing the mark” (as in archery) and the Orthodox continue to view sin in the same way: that a person sets out to accomplish something and chooses a wrong path that leads them to miss the mark (of goodness). Western Christianity has not described it with such felicity, but the same concept applies. With the rise of psychology, we even have models from the social sciences to support the concept: no one acts against their own interests. Even a suicide (whose actions result in self-destruction) generally believes that their death is the better choice than facing the pain/shame/tedium/whatever of continued life. Working under that concept, sin is perceived as simply choosing a lesser but more immediate “good” (wealth, power, sexual satisfaction, avoidance of punishment, etc.) over the greater good that one would achieve by adhering to God’s plan. C.S. Lewis makes this case in The Screwtape Letters and elsewhere.
I doubt that any mainstram Christian sect holds that sin is generally a result of choosing to hate God.
I’ve been in and out of various protestant denominations for about 20 years and I’ve never heard this. People sin because they are weak, because they have a sinful nature, because of a multitude of reasons, but attributing sin to “hating G-d” just sounds weird…and maybe dumb.
All due credit to Flip Wilson
The Devil made me do it!
I believe that most fundies would go along to the above sentiment more than the idea that sinning is a result of hating God. Hating God goes completely against the grain. I’m as Liberal Christian as there is and that idea repulses me. Your friend is misguided. :eek: [sup]Polycarp get in here and clear this up![/sup]
Like tomndebb said, sin is willfully choosing to do the wrong thing, even when we know what the right thing is. It may be true that ‘sinners sin because they hate God’ in the sense that people lie, cheat and steal even though those things are ultimately harmful acts. We sin because we fail to do the good alternative.
That said, the phrase makes me cringe. It seems to me that it could be used as a hypocritical means to objectify others, to distance ones self from other “less holy” sorts of folk.
soooo, they’re saying everyone hates god except his kid?
because everyone has done their fare share of sinning expect for jesus. or at least that’s what i always heard.
i just sin because it’s way more interesting.
The only people that I have heard espouse the notion that we sin because we hate God or, more commonly, love Satan, are those that stand on the Common or in Harvard Square with sandwhich boards. I don’t take anything they say with a grain of salt. In my opinion, people sin either out or a desire to get the results that sinning gives them, because they don’t believe there is another option, or because they don’t feel they are sinning.
I seem to recall one of our former hardcore fundy members stating that people didn’t believe in Jesus so that they could just sin and debach themselves all they wanted and not have to answer for it.
Is that close enough?
I sin, and I hate God, but there’s no causal relationship between the two. It’s purely coincidental.
No, it isn’t. It’s not even close.
There’s a huge difference betweeen saying “People reject Jesus so that they can persist in sin” and “People sin because they hate God.” Do you see the difference yet?
That’s a rather odd thing for a person to day, since I don’t think Jesus ever banned anything that was fun. Unless you like killing people. Or stealing. Or basically being an asshole.
I’m a pretty liberal Christian as well, and what the OP heard is new to me. And I’ve talked with the Phelps group! Well, sort of. It’s not much of a conversation when you’re getting called an idiot and accused of having a black heart.