Me either, even under the circumstance of SRS.
Regards,
Shodan
As my post in the Skald thread says, while I would be a bigot if I considered you to be another gender than the one you claim, you aren’t entirely the gender you want to be. You were socialized as the gender matching your sex, and you think about gender differently than any cis-gendered person. Furthermore, whether you like it or not, there are people who, knowing your sex, would not want to be your partner, and it’s not only an assholish thing to do but potentially dangerous to have sex with someone who later finds out.
Yes, you should tell. Do you really want to be partners with someone who sees you as less of a (wo)man?
Please don’t selectively quote my post - you changed its meaning by leaving out the pertinent part of it which directly applies to the OP.
[QUOTE=ME]
But if I did fall in love with a woman who then after I was already in love told me she was an M2F…so what? It would only concern me from the standpoint of the aforementioned 4 bullet items.
[/QUOTE]
Isn’t the OP talking about the case where the two imaginary protagonists are already in love?
My apologies if I was misleading.
In my case, it wouldn’t make any difference. SRS is a deal-breaker.
Once they come up with some kind of surgery that changes DNA, that might be different.
Regards,
Shodan
I think we’re all making a lot of assumptions about how far into the relationship we’re talking about. Perhaps the OP can clarify.
This is a little confusing to me. If the person’s mind is that what they present as, and their physical body has been surgically modified to function (as much as possible) as that of their proper gender, what difference does DNA make. I assume you neither have a meaningful relationship or sexual intercourse with their DNA.
DNA is more determinative of gender than surgery, or what people say, IMO.
An anecdote I have told before in other threads is one credited to Abraham Lincoln. It’s a riddle - “how many legs does a dog have, if you call a tail a leg?” The answer is, four. Calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it a leg.
Suppose you think you could never fall in love with a male. Then you meet someone, and fall in love with them. And the person tells you, “I am a female. I have a penis, and testicles, and XY chromosomes. Nonetheless, I am a female.”
Maybe some people are so enlightened that they can broaden their definition of “female” to include people with penises, and could go merrily on with the relationship just on the other person’s assertion. Goody for them. For me - not so much.
Regards,
Shodan
One of the odd things about these conversations is the number of people who insist that the harder it is to perceive a gender marker, the more relevant that marker is. It seems to me that the most valid and important markers are the ones that don’t require a blood sample a two week wait to determine.
I’m also curious why you’d feel different about things if we could alter people’s DNA. Why is that level of surgical intervention valid for changing one’s gender, while the far less extreme measures that currently exist don’t count?
The OP does specify that we’re talking about post-operative transexuals. So, no penis involved, at least for MtFs.
DNA is more important because it is foundational, not because it is hard to measure.
See above.
It was a response to the “gender is nothing but a social construct” rather than the OP.
Regards,
Shodan
Shodan did you read the study I posted? Do you or do you not accept that the human brain is sexually dimorphic? If you do, do you accept that the sex of the brain can be at odds with with the sex of the body?
If you do not accept these things, why not?
Oh, somebody has to. (We always end up here with the DNA, don’t we?)
Androgen insensitivity syndrome.
Of course, tell me truthfully that you’d dump a woman you were in love with just because of this medical condition too, and I’ll call it square.
Shodan is just trying to rationalize his “icky” reaction to transgenderism. Contrast that to tdn, who admitted he was being silly and irrational.
I guess what confuses me is that for me, love has serious meaning. It’s overpowering and looks 'pon tempests and is not shaken, to steal from Shakespeare. If I was already in love with someone - you know, real love, not the word teens blurt out to fuck some starry-eyed girl or boy, nor the rote catechism so many married couples do by reflex - and they confessed to me a medical condition that was out of their control…why would I suddenly unlove them?
Why would anyone, for that matter? Maybe love just means different things to different people.
Wouldn’t you be very concerned that they hid such a big thing from you for long enough for you to love them, though? People stop loving each other all the time over deceptions. Or at least they break up with them, and presumably stop loving them eventually.
For me, I guess if I loved my partner and then later he found out that he was biologically a woman or whatever (I know there are conditions where a person can look female and then find out they’re male, and I don’t know if the reverse is true but let’s say it is) then I guess I wouldn’t care. Although it’s unlikely I would date someone like that if I did know beforehand. But if even he didn’t know, then fine, no deception.
Except that you said SRS is your dealbreaker. So we’re not talking about a woman with a penis and testicles. We’re talking about a woman sans those things, whose DNA/chromosomes would in fact be male but which has no bearing on her detectable femaleness. So why is SRS a dealbreaker?
It’s a concern, certainly. But it’s one I can sympathize with, due to the incredible about of fear and uncertainty that TS/TG persons typically have to live in. Ostracism, violent crimes, even outright murder, mostly by men with “penis panic.” And again, being TS/TG is not something in their control. If they lied about say, a criminal record, or having left a trail of abandoned kids/partners across the country, yeah, that’s a deal breaker, largely because those are indicative of behaviors and morals.
Sure, I agree with you completely. People have likes and dislikes in partners, nothing wrong there, when you’re talking about the initial contact/first date.