Ok, in my threads on Womyn vs Woman I touched on the subject of scorned women. Women who for one reason or another hate men, are voracious activists for this cause or that cause etc…etc… Women like my own mother, who after 25 years of marriage was cheated on and lied to by her husband and has since swore no more men for her and basically hates all men thinking they have some hidden agenda - and are some how inherently evil. Anyway the women she hangs out with are exactly like her - to the T.
I have noticed that women like these have a tendency or leniency to voraciously support women’s rights and especially lesbian rights. Though not lesbian themselves they tend to act the part in their support. Does anyone notice this as well, or have any anecdotes to support this claim? Just wondering really.
The women and places really do exist. Northampton, MA is known as Lesbianville, USA and full of the type you describe. Many of them aren’t lesbian themselves but are still as cross and militant as they come. Parts of Cape Cod are like that too. Walk around those places for a few minutes and you are going to wonder who shit in the brownies. There is some serious anger.
I had a teacher in High School, who was also my minister’s wife, who fit that description well. She failed me for a grading period once because whe said I was applying myself and I was just taking advantage of being male. She always seemed like a real closet lesbian to me though.
Just because a woman is bitter over men doesn’t make her a lesbian. Just like a man being bitter over women doesn’t make him gay. So we shouldn’t assume that Phlosphr and Shagnasty are secret homosexual lovers.
What does this even mean? Are you really a college professor?
I’ve seen this theme a lot in fiction, and have often wondered if it’s true. It seems false to me. Here’s the progression according to these authors:
Women gets badly hurt in a relationship. As in, he beats her badly, or cheats on her a lot.
She loses faith in the relationship, and in her man.
She somehow loses faith in *all * men.
She now can only have relationships with women.
Ok, I’ll buy that if your psyche is so damaged you may only trust women, but I don’t see that as leading to having sex with them, too. There are two different issues at stake here.
Not to mention that if you are mis-trusting of *all * of a sex because of the actions of a few, there is something wrong with your psyche, IMO. There are only two sexes!
No not any more my, wife and I moved to AZ and I began consulting at an environmental planning firm…
What the statement means is based on my own observation of the types of women I describe in my post, non are lesbian, but nearly all act in a manner suggesting such. Furthermore - why the snide tone?
Sorry about your mom, Phlosphr. There is hope, since her present attitude came from having earlier illusions shattered, so might yet the current ones be shed.
Personally, I believe that most bigots aren’t guided by any particular animosity towards men, Blacks, gays, etc.; but rather hold a general dislike of all people and maintain tolerance thresholds for only those people as much like themselves as possible. I once submitted a test for Fascism: (1) “I am superior not for any individual accomplishment, but simply by virtue of being born into a particular group” and (2) “All my troubles are the fault of another group,” and was flamed for including Radical Feminists among those who passed this test. (To their credit, scorned women don’t form Einsatzgruppen-style death squads, although they do retain some nasty divorce lawyers.)
John Keegan writes of the aftermath of for Great War in England where, due to the loss of millions of men, pairs of tweed-clad female couples appeared in public in numbers never seen previously. What we don’t know is what percentage of this was similar to prison and barrack homosexuality, where one’s true sexual outlet is unavailable so one makes due; or if these relationships were the liberation of repressed lesbians who, with more men available, would have forced themselves into conventional male-female pairs.
And yet these weren’t “scorned” women of the OP. Add personal disappointment into the situation and it only becomes more complex. So maybe everyone is to some extent a bigot who can’t get along with anyone too different. But what are the causes of these differences? Maybe it’s biological and cultural differences between men vs. women or it’s the way society and the economy pulls people apart that’s to blame. If anyone can answer that and bottle it, please send me a case.
I can’t imagine what in being scorned would cause you to be sexually attracted to the opposite of whatever scorned you.
All the cats I’ve ever owned have pissed me off, but I’ve never wanted to do the nasty with any of my border collies. Similarly, adults piss me off roughly every hour, but the thought of engaging in sex acts with children still repels me.
I think rather than suggesting that these women are acting like “lesbians” (a designation referring to one’s sexual preference), you’d be best off describing their behaviour as male-rejecting, man-hating, male-discounting, strongly feminist, or even mannish if that’s your observation, and leaving it at that.
How does one “act in a manner suggesting such”? If I seem snide it’s because it seems to me your engaging in a blantant stereotype of thinking all lesbians are men-hating and really just need a good man to straighten them out. What is a “lesbian manner”? Just because someone has come to the conclusion she doesn’t need a man to be complete she’s not automatically a lesbian. Maybe they just fight patriarchy because they dislike the system and see the inherent unfairness.
As a large and (so I’m told) somewhat intimidating looking hetero guy, most of the lesbians I have known were usually quite pleasant, slightly flirty even (in an appreciative regular guy kind of way) when I fixed something for them. Plus lesbians often give me food (good stuff too).
It’s the girly hetero women I have trouble with, they never seem to know what they really want, or if they get what they say they want, it turns out they really wanted something else that only the guys that shit all over them can provide. It’s a strange world.
lesbian leniencies?
What the heck kind of phrase is that? You were a college prof? Not of English, I hope.
Lesbian tendencies, I can wrap my head around. I joke with one friend I have that we should start exploring lesbian sex because our husbands basically are out to lunch when it comes to being emotionally present in our marriages and our sex lives. Does that mean that either of us is gay? No–it’s a joke. Sure, if the opportunity ever presents itself (and believe me, I am not looking)–I would try lesbian sex. Who knows what latencies lie dormant in me? I sure don’t–and perhaps some of these angry women don’t know either, but I am willing to bet that those numbers are small.
But I just don’t get the “bitter about men so therefore must be dyke” twist.
There are alot of women who have been badly hurt by men (or a man). PC comment: there are alot of men who have been hurt by women (or a woman).
How that turns them into lesbians is beyond me. Some of the women may see lesbians as more empowered and confident–but identifying with a few aspects of a certain group does not neccessarily make you a member of said group. Aka liking hip hop or rap does not make white suburban kid black.
Also, how come a man can be misogynistic and not be labelled gay? Double standard? It seems so.
You are right. I do not want to paint that picture at all. I do not feel like I’m being as succinct as I should. My mother and her friends are certainly man hating, and I do believe that is a direct result of their husbands infidelity… And this of course has nothing to do with their sexuality. The juxtaposition that I tried and failed at was that now, over time, they have lesbian leniencies not tendencies…
Still not helping. What in the world are you trying to say? While leniencies is in the dictionary, it doesn’t really help me. You still haven’t established any real connection between loathing men and having a romantic interest in women.
Unless you are saying someone can be “culturily” lesbian, like some people can be share Jewish culture without considering themselves Jewish. But the connection is very murky and heavily loaded.
Leniencies as in they are lenient towards lesbians? Or do you mean sympathies or empathies? Maybe you’re trying to say they prefer to hang out with other women, even lesbians, then men. That I can perhaps understand, then. It’s easier to avoid getting involved and getting hurt by a man if you cut them out of your life.
YES! Thank OG! Thats what I am trying to say! If you read the Women/womyn thread you may get a better understanding of what I’ve observed in my mother and her friends.
I don’t usually put up threads that train wreck like this…Jeez!
No…no, I think we should assume this.
I think he’s talking about the ‘political lesbians’*, although I thought those went out with the 70s.
They often dress, look, and act like stereotypical lesbians (i.e., very butch manhaters). Please note that I said stereotypical lesbians, not real lesbians.
They’re also generally some form of ‘animal-farm’ feminists (“two legs good, three legs bad, BAAAAA”).
They often hang out with actual lesbians. Sometimes they even call themselves lesbians, while avoiding all actual lesbian sex - maybe so that the real lesbians won’t boot 'em out of the playhouse. It seems like some of them actually tried lesbian sex and didn’t like it, but since they couldn’t possibly have sex with evil men, decided that they just weren’t much interested in sex.
I remember lots when I was a kid (grew up in a 70s college town) but haven’t known any for the last couple decades.
*From the play Sexual Perversity in Chicago where a man, when told by a woman he’s hitting on that she’s a lesbian, asks, “Is that a personal or political preference?”. It was funny at the time (mid 70s) because of the large number of ‘political lesbians’.
Suddenly… the music swells, and the band begins playing “It Had To Be You”.
(If Isham Jones were alive to read this, he’d be turning over in his grave.)
Ummm… I think you misspelled “leniencies”… 