Do we need the lies of childhood?

[Some_Schmo]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them. Like others have said, they add to the fun of being a kid. Few people believe in monsters, werewolves, vampires, witches, etc, but we still pretend they exist at Halloween because it makes the holiday more fun, for instance.

What would be wrong is insisting they’re real after the child’s figured out they aren’t.

To me, that’s the difference between theism and childhood myths. I’d have no problem with religion if they didn’t insist god/after-life/heaven/hell/judgment day/etc were real after you figure out they probably aren’t.

[iamthewalrus_3]

@I_Love_Me_Vol.I

That really happens? Are there people that grow up still believing some of the myths they were taught as a child? Probably hardly any keep their beliefs of Santa Claus or a Tooth Fairy into adulthood, so what myths do some adults continue to hold onto into adulthood and beyond? This seems like it could be a pretty unhealthy behavior–a psychiatric problem that could deeply affect whether this adult is able to behave as a fully responsible member of society.

This feels like a whoosh, but oh well. The myths that adults believe in are generally called religions.

[Beware_of_Doug]

@iamthewalrus_3

This feels like a whoosh, but oh well. The myths that adults believe in are generally called religions.

No fair glossing over socioeconomic myths - Horatio Alger, the perfect market, late-capitalist work ethics, etc., etc.

[lee]

I skip the standard lies to children about Santa, et al, and use them as example of how to deal with people with ridiculous beliefs. I teach my children that it is rude and pointless to tell someone who apparently believes in Santa that he does not exist, and you will look like a fool, because you can’t prove he doesn’t, just like god. I also teach them that being rude about this is very bad indeed and not something I will condone.

I don’t see Santa as entirely harmless. I find adults who punish visible disbelief in Santa odious.

I also tell my children that not everything happens for a reason, that sometimes good things happen to bad people and sometimes bad things happen to good people, but most people are not thoroughly good or bad.

My son has a disease caused by a mutation. He has tumors because of it, and is at risk for truly heart rending conditions because of it. I don’t like to think of what will happen when he has to deal with people who think everything happens for a reason.

When I teach them about the way the universe is, I don’t talk about it being designed. The same goes with teaching about why evolution worked out the way it did. When my husband talks about something natural being designed to work some way or meant to serve a purpose, I question him in front of them, “designed by whom? meant by whom?”

[Sapo]

Just a comment that although the thread has gone in a direction I wasn’t planning, I am reading with much interest.

[Mijin]

@lee

When my husband talks about something natural being designed to work some way or meant to serve a purpose, I question him in front of them, “designed by whom? meant by whom?”

I agree, though I sometimes find myself saying “designed to” just because this phrasing comes most naturally, despite being potentially misleading.

That said, many concise descriptions of a phenotype will be misleading to one extent or another. A phenotype may serve more than one role for an organism, not all roles may be known to us, and the reason the phenotype persists in the gene pool may be another story.

[thirdwarning]

@Gagundathar

In my opinion, these kind of lies are used to inculcate a belief in superstition in our children.
That makes believing in Jesus much easier for them, and since (according to most Christians) such a belief is essential for eternal life, then the lies are justified.

Interesting hypothesis, since many of the most fervent Christians make a point of not teaching things like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny to their kids. And most of those who do teach it, keep the religious faith and the childhood games quite separate.

[Fear_Itself]

@thirdwarning

Interesting hypothesis, since many of the most fervent Christians make a point of not teaching things like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny to their kids. And most of those who do teach it, keep the religious faith and the childhood games quite separate.

Many? A more accurate estimate would be “some Christians”. Many Christians indulge their children with the Santa story.

[BigT]

@Fear_Itself

Many? A more accurate estimate would be “some Christians”. Many Christians indulge their children with the Santa story.

You missed a word: fervent. And it’s really more of a euphemism for fundamentalist. As in, the type of Christian who believes that telling their child about Santa is lying and getting them to indulge in a pagan superstition and thus will condemn them all to a fiery torment.

[SmartAlecCat]

A good blog post on this topic:
http://parentingbeyondbelief.com/blog/?p=3507

Santa Claus – The Ultimate Dry Run
[…]
“Santa Claus, my secular friends, is the greatest gift a rational worldview ever had. Our culture has constructed a silly and temporary myth parallel to its silly and permanent one.”

(Comparing outgrowing Santa Claus to outgrowing religion.)

[Bean_Wrangler]

Do we need to tell kids about Santa Claus? I believe so. Perhaps some of the more cynical individuals will forget, but once upon a time everyone was a wee little one, and didn’t quite have a mensa score, or could understand incredibly abstract ideas, sitting around with a sniffer of brandy discussing post modernism ethics. I believe that Santa Claus is a fantastic example of exploring and encouraging imagination, developing a family bond which everyone can partake in, and eventually teach about some of the lofty and noble (if often unobtainable) qualities of humanity. For example:

Age 2 Christmas: A bunch of fun decorations to see, a big tree inside the house?!, adults in a happy albeit stressful mood, a bunch of attention, and one day… presents! Huge surprise!

Age 4 Christmas: A bunch of fun decorations to see, the story of Santa, marveling at the idea of an intangible yet real concept, beginning of memories, exploration into artwork which may have not been otherwise done, curiosities into culinary traditions, adults in a happy albeit stressful mood, a bunch of attention, and one day… presents from the big man himself! A big surprise!

Age 6 - 8 Christmas: All the above, but understanding that this Christmas is starting to become a “pay to play game”, receiving altruistic pleasure from giving siblings and parents present, not feeling guilty you are receiving a lot more than your giving, but still able to participate, starting to question the logistics and science of Santa

Age 10+ Christmas (for those who have enough): Starting to understand that Santa has been a metaphor for the goodwill spirit, and beginning to look past just what one has, but focusing and charity for those who don’t have. A time of service and lessons on trying to provide for the fellow man, and grasping the ideal which the happy and stressful parents have been questing to live up to.

Age 10+ Christmas (for those who don’t have enough): Starting to understand that Santa has been a metaphor for the goodwill spirit, and the level of sacrifice that parents have gone through for what pleasures they have enjoyed. Beginning to look past just what one doesn’t have, but what one has. If needy enough, understanding that the charity of others displayed show that humanity tries to be kind, even if this isn’t an ideal met most of the year. A time of lessons on thoughtfulness and personal sacrifice for siblings/parents. Possibly understanding the spirit of Christmas through Toys for Tots/Churches/Salvation army, and a general ability to escape the dreary life of living without, if for but a moment in time.

FWIW, I’m 26, and my dad just yesterday brought in a Santa suit from his car (he had it when he dressed up for the children of some of his clients before Christmas). He mentioned that he was going to wait to bring it in when I was asleep as not to spoil the illusion of Santa Claus, and seeing that suit brought back a lunar tidal wave of memories of him dressed up in it, and enjoyable Christmases past.

The tooth fairy? It’s a great way to help children overcome the fear of “MY BODY IS FALLING APART!!” with “YAY! A NEW HALF DOLLAR”*
*At least I got a half dollar, to hear kids today, they get upwards of 10x… must be a shortage of baby teeth on the magical market.