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This is the best description of ‘niceguy’ syndrome that I have ever heard- thank you.
This is still correct.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. As a guy, if the choice is between treating every girl you meet like like a piece of meat who’s one purpose is to fuck you, or being a “nice guy.” Its far better off to be the former, because some percentage of girls are morons with daddy issues and will be attracted to the jerk. The nice guy, on the other hand, will be luck to get noticed at all.
Not that I’m saying that its good to be the jerk. Just that a guy would have more success with women being one than he would a nice guy.
Happy to help. 
Now bring me my beer, bitch.
Anyone – not just men – who are bitter enough to blame half the species for their own shortcomings are annoying twits. I suppose that we could shoehorn that into the evolutionary attraction model, but who really cares?
We should all be glad that those aren’t the only choices.
Absolutely. But if someone was stuck in the rut of being a nice guy and was afraid to break out for fear of being a jerk, the irony is they would be much better off by being a jerk
I will take some small issue with this, if only because the “Nice Guy” types ARE jerks, just jerks who couch their sense of entitlement/arrogance in pseudovirtue rather than bad-boy behavior.
Having been all three, I got the most different girls when I was an arrogant jerk, but I have/had a much more satisfying sex life overall when I was just a decent goddamn human being. Naturally, I didn’t get laid very often at all when I was a “Nice Guy”, and when I did I sabotaged my own relationships by being too clingy.
On the contrary, I find the evolutionary attraction model silly and irrelevant and tiresome. I have no interest in trying to categorize the behavior of half of the human race based on their chromosomes, because even if I accepted that it’s possible (which I emphatically don’t), I’m not interested in dating ALL men or ALL women.
Once you decide that it’s much simpler and more productive to accept that some people are assholes, and that assholes are best avoided, who gives a shit about WHY they’re assholes?
Perhaps the best reason to give a shit is to avoid being an asshole oneself, if one is predisposed to asshole behaviors or simply ignorant of what might be asshole behavior.
Yes, exactly. We’re not talking about men who happen to be nice - we’re talking about the guys who CALL themselves “nice”, repeatedly, and say that women don’t like them because they’re “too nice”, but in reality this guy is a passive-aggressive jerk. This is a guy who PRETENDS to be nice, but he’s clingy and needy, and all his supposed niceness isn’t because he’s actually a good guy, it’s because he thinks he’ll get women that way. And then they think their behavior entitles them to dates, sex, etc.
Well yeah, exploring why YOU are an asshole is an excellent use of your time, because you can change that.
Exploring why OTHER people are assholes? Not so much.
There are ways to “tell it like it is” without being particularly mean or cruel about it. It also helps if someone actually asked you to tell it. OTOH, ignoring reality doesn’t help either.
That’s a booty call, not a ‘nice girl’.
The ‘nice girl’ is basically the buddy. The tomboy. The plain friend. The bridesmaid who is never the bride. Think Mary Stuart Masterson from ‘Some Kind of Wonderful’ or Janine Garafolo from ‘The Truth About Cats & Dogs’. Basically there is something about them that prevents the guys they are into from seeing them in a sexual context. They might just be a bit overweight or a bit too plain or they just don’t present themselves in a sexual way.
Same thing with ‘nice guys’. Picture dumbass Clark Kent stammaring and stumbling around the Daily Planet. They lack a particular spark or aggressiveness that prevents them from attracting women or making their feelings known. They may also have a particular cluelessness about when a woman actually is interested in them. How long does it take to work up the courage to go up to a girl you like at the office and say “want to grab a drink after work?”
Having known guys with minor emotional or social disorders, or for that matter just poor socialization, there’s a benefit to being able to define a category (not a gender-wide one, mind you, but rooted in specific model behaviors) so one can say “that thing right there is why you aren’t getting any dates. It is that thing which makes you an asshole.”
:: makes sign of the cross :: Not the dreaded ladder theory! Nooooooo!
I had a self described “Nice Guy” who liked me who thought the ladder theory was up there with the wheel and fire. He practically had diagrams and examples printed out to whip out on you at any moment.
Eventually we couldn’t be friends anymore because I didn’t want to go out with him. I told him over and over that we were just going to be friends. I told him that his flirting and double-entendres made me uncomfortable and he’d stop for a while only to start up later. Later his flirting would contain aggressive pokes. “Anytime you need a man you let me know. Oh wait, you don’t like me like that”
After I finally told him that it was best we just both go our separate way as friends I found out that he has labeled me a stupid girl who only dates jerks, not nice guys like him. Forget that I haven’t dated a JERK since I was about 20, it was just that I wasn’t interested in HIM. At all.
I can’t speak for all Nice Guys, but as a recovering Nice Guy, I can speak for myself, and what you say is not really so. I rarely felt entitled in any way – in fact I felt just the opposite. And I wasn’t pretending anything. I wasn’t just nice to women that I desired, I was nice to everyone. I never had an agenda of being clingy, needy, and emotionally manipulative.
It just came out that way.
But my intentions were ALWAYS good.
This misconception often comes up in these threads – the idea that a “bad boy” is the same thing as a bad man. When women say they are attracted to “bad boys” this is largely a description of the man’s style. It suggests a ruggedly handsome guy with a rebellious or unconventional attitude who plays the electric guitar, has a tattoo, wears a leather jacket, and rides a motorcycle. It doesn’t really have anything to do with his moral character.
A “bad boy” could be a very nice person, or he could be a total jerk. The “bad girl” type popular with many men is quite similar.
Exactly. People who are truly nice don’t sit around whining about how their niceness has failed to get them what they want.
Then you weren’t the type of guy I’m talking about! 
You sound more like you were just a bit clueless, rather than “the Nice Guy”.
I could not disagree more. The bad boys I’ve known who were most successful with women did not wear leather jackets or play the electric guitar. Most of them didn’t wear tattoos and were not particularly handsome. What they did have in common was a certain cockiness (to use the exact phrasing of the one I knew best) and other “bad man” characteristics – embarassing other people in public, for example, or poking fun at them in ways that they knew would make the person angry.
That’s not just by own observation, mind you. Two of the guys that I work with said that they became more successful with women when they started to act like a**holes. One of them even told this one woman he was dating, “You know what? You think I’m okay, but I bet that If were to start treating you like crap, I wouldn’t be able to get rid of you.” He won that bet.
Is being a “bad boy” all about attire and rugged good looks? For some, perhaps, but I think it’s foolish to say that it’s all about one’s wardrobe and physical appearance.
Yes, and no.
Have you seen the new TV series “Dollhouse” at all? There’s a perfect example of the 7-11 in there. She’s the neighbor across the hall that is always making him lasagne and accepting his packages and looking in on him. She’s not his booty call, yet, but you know she would be if he wanted her to be.
But he’s too busy chasing leads on who “Caroline” is to notice her beyond thanking her as he turns and focuses back.
You know, I’m sure that there are indeed women who respond to that sort of thing. But do you really want to date them anyway? Because I’m pretty sure the lesson to be taken from your examples is not “Women like assholes”, but “Fucked up people tend to find each other .”