Do you believe a post-op transexual is the original or assigned gender?

Suggested by Do transgenders who have had sex changes have the obligation to tell their future partners?

Poll in a second or eight. The results will be private so people can be honest.

I want to give the second answer, but I can’t. Except in very rare circumstances, you were still entirely socialized as your physical gender. While you may be happier as your preferred gender, being socialized as the other gender is not going to not affect you.

Plus, gender is a social construct, and there are a lot of people that, even without what I said above, do not want to date with a transgendered person. So they are obviously treating them as another gender.

I don’t think it’s meaningful to say some one “is” a gender (or any other label). It’s better just to say they self-identify as something. Humans are too complex to strictly categorize except as a shorthand convenience. But it would be a mistake to present that categorization as a real phenomenon.

Why does it matter what I believe?

I voted I don’t know because I don’t have any info to base an opinion on.

It doesn’t…and it does. For common acceptance at any rate.
I have to answer I don’t know or “it’s more than just a dichotomy”. It’s such a difficult situation all around, and I don’t have an easy-peasy answer.

The poll is inherently flawed because it doesn’t distinguish between sex (the biological aspect) and gender (the social aspect). These are not the same thing: I don’t lactate because of my sex, and I don’t wear skirts because of my gender.

I don’t care. If you’re a transexual, pre or post op, I’ll refer to you in whichever way you wish. If I’m unsure which you prefer, I’ll ask.

True, I’m not going to date a male-to-female transexual; but there are plenty of women born female whom I probably wouldn’t date either. You can’t be attracted to everyone of your preferred gender. /shrugs/

The only way my belief about this is relevant is in how I address that person, and I address people using whatever gender they present themselves to be. For example, I believe Chaz Bono is a male, because that is how he is living and presenting himself. I chose the option reflecting that.

This. Gender is a social construction. Not only that, but a lot of transgender folks do not want to be lumped in one group or the other. Based on the people I know, I think most of the trans community views gender identity on a continuum rather than an either/or proposition.

However, assuming the person is biologically female with a strict male gender identity, I consider that person a man.

I voted original, because no amount of surgery is going to change your basic chromosome structure. If someone ran a blind blood test, they would report male or female based on XX vs. XY, and that’s not gonna change.

Last time I checked, the brain of Homo Sapiens Sapiens was sexually dimorphic-
As there is currently no way to get a decent look at the stria terminalis except for autopsy, I’m willing to take a person’s word on what sex brain they have.

“It’s complicated”. If someone wants to be addressing using pronouns of one gender or another, I’ll use whichever they wish. No skin off my ass.

What gender are they “really”? Who knows? Who cares? But if you want to wear a dress, or pants, or makeup, or date a man, or a woman, or have long hair, or get your breasts enhanced or reduced, it’s your life. I’m not your counselor or doctor or BFF. You could be making a good decision or a bad decision for yourself, but the only thing I’m pretty sure of is that you’re in a better position to make those decisions than I am, so I’m not going to second guess you.

Thing is, gender isn’t something that exists outside of human bodies and human minds. Plenty of species on this planet have no genders, or are both, or switch roles. If you’d rather live as if you were a man, or a woman, go right ahead. The argument about whether you’re really a man, or really a woman or just acting as if you were a man or a woman is pretty uninteresting.

I’m a man, but am I really a man, or do I only act like a man? I confess to not being interested in girly-girl stuff, but I’m also not really interested in manly-man stuff. The way I act “like a man” isn’t strictly cultural or biological either. Is it natural for a man to wear pants or for a woman to wear a dress? Or natural for a woman to wear makeup but unnatural for a man? It’s made-up. Everyone is in drag to one degree or another. If you prefer to live your life according to different rules of drag, then go ahead.

And for those who aren’t familiar with this sort of stuff, it’s worth observing that there are a lot of cisgender people who take this view as well.

I’m willing to take your word for it on what gender you are, whatever your medical history might be.

It’s complicated. Genetic coding (xx, xy, xxy, xyy) is one thing. The plumbing is another. Social roles associated with gender are something else. Not my business what someone used to be, unless the sharing of personal history is important in our present-day friendship. It’s a big psychological thing, gender reassignment, and close friends would want to talk about it. Not close? Don’t need to know. Don’t care.

However, it may matter in terms of sports competition – someone born male is going to have physical advantages over someone born female. It may matter in medical issues; I’m not a medical person and I don’t know. It may also matter in police work/DNA testing, etc. I do not think that birth certificates should be altered to reflect gender reassignment; they should reflect what was the physical case at the time of birth. Someone transgendered can create a rebirth certificate for him/herself to commemorate the new state, but leave the original as is.

I’ve only been close friends (as opposed to acquaintances) with one transgendered person, and we’ve talked about it for hours. This friend’s opinion, also, last we contemplated, was “it’s complicated.”

When it comes to gender, I believe in treating people as they want to be treated. Therefore, if you tell me you want to be treated as a woman, I will. It’s got nothing to do with DNA or body parts; it’s got everything to do with consideration.

Now if you tell me to call you Shirley, but have a beard and wear speedos, there is a decent chance that I will have an occasional brain fart, and use the wrong gender.

I am still undecided when it comes to things like bathrooms and changing rooms, which are gender segregated. In that case, it’s not because I have a problem with the transgendered persons wishes, but because there is more than one person involved.

This is not a subject that is open for debate or opinion. My female gender is legally established under the laws of my state Virginia and under US federal law, wherever applicable. That is the final word on the subject. It is frankly painful to me to see people debating whether or not I’m a woman, especially based on so much ignorance and ill will.

I disagree with the term “original gender”. Fer example, Rachel Pollack was born a woman. She has XY chromosomes and had a penis and testes, but was still a woman. In her view (and mine) the surgery was corrective surgery. The legal change from M to F was not due to the surgery and hormonal therapy. It was a recognition of an error that had been made.

I used “original gender” for the sake of brevity. There’s just so much space in the poll options. I thought about “biological” but that too seemed fraught with difficulty.

That said …

This thread seems to be disturbing Johanna. That’s not what it’s meant for, and I don’t like to hurt people, so I’m going to ask a mod to close it. But before I do I will publicly apologize to her.