On 20/20 today they had a story on rudeness. I was thinking ‘this should be interesting’ but about 80% of what they covered was lack of social etiquette and not rudeness. When I think of rudeness I think of intentional or callous cruelty. This report seemed to focus mostly on non-conformity and eccentricity, as if they are the same thing as rudeness. There was even someone decrying the loss of ‘shame culture’ in Japan. How very sad. I see alot of real life cruelty (I’ve committed some of it, I’ve had some committed to me, I’ve seen others
I bought my first cell phone today as I need it for school. I have never found cell phone users to be rude. I don’t even find them eccentric or in violation of any social etiquette standards. Nor do I mind cursing. Nor do I mind drinking coffee in public, or smoking in public, or dressing differently, clipping your toenails, using a blackberry at dinner or most of the other stuff they considered to be rude. However I see alot of rude people at school. IU has a reasonably ranked PhD program in chemistry (27th), and numerous faculty members who attended top programs in chemistry (caltech, MIT, harvard, UC berkeley). As a result it attracts alot of Type A personalities. I can say with no embellishment that of ones that I’ve met (about 25-30) a graduate student or professor in chemistry at IU is more likely to be rude than not. Not ‘different’, but actually a bad person to be around. They are likely to be condescending, insulting, publicly chastising, impatient, etc. I could give examples, but I’m sure people get the idea.
I have lost all respect for 20/20 now. I lost most when they did a story a month ago about money and they interviewed some people who gave their fortunes to charity. Elizabeth Vargas asked ‘are these people crazy’, as if you must suffer a mental disorder if you’d rather give your money to charity than spend it on shoes and clothes. They had on a lesbian woman who gave about $3 million to charity and a college professor whose life ambition was to give $1 million to charity over the course of his life, even if it meant he had to drive a non-descript car. Thats fucked up that this kind of conduct requires scrutiny. If anything I honestly worry alot more about people reminiscing over days of intense conformity and social repression and treating philantrophy as a sign of mental illness than about people swearing or using their cell phones. Seriously. That is a very nebulous sign in my mind.
Anyway, do you see rudeness in your day to day life? Do you think social etiquette and rudeness are the same thing?
Wow. You really don’t see anything the slightest bit rude about not covering your mouth when you yawn or using your blackberry or cell during a dinner out? And rude means lack of etiquette, deliberately being cruel to someone is known as “mean”, not rude.
I’ve been pondering this issue of manners and general niceness declining rapidly the last few years. The other day as I was leaving the parking lot at daycare, the driver of a SUV behind me in the parking lot started blowing her horn. I couldn’t turn out yet, as there were cars coming. When it finally cleared and I started to go, she came around from behind me, jumped over the curb, and sped out. This was on a main artery, at rush-hour, so a few seconds later when I coasted up beside her so we could sit there for at least 10 minutes, I let her know in no uncertain terms that her behavior was not acceptable. I’d like to say that her behavior is unusual, but I personally see people doing asshole things like that everywhere I go (the grocery store is a big one for this) and it makes the baby Jesus cry.
Cursing, drinking, smoking in public is in way rude IMO. Neither is using a cell phone. At dinner using your blackberry or cell phone is not necessarily rude, but its more rude then not more often. It would have to be a case on case basis IMO.
Some of the other issues you raised are more of a ‘mean’ the ‘rude’ thing. To me being rude is not saying please and thank you, not holding the door for the person behind you, taking without asking, I could go on. Some of these you seem to think would be etiquette. I think etiquette is a very important part of being polite, as are social graces such as the ones you attribute to class A personalities.
What do you consider etiquette, but not politeness? Is polite the opposite of rude?
You could consider being callous and cruel to also be a breach of social graces, in that you are supposed to show respect for people. It’s just that at the time when manners were an art that was actually cultivated widely, that went without saying, it was taken for granted that you wouldn’t be so uncouth as to do such things.
In light of your subject matter, this part of your signature is interesting…
“One of the more stressful parts of modern life is dealing with all the unlikeable people who populate it. If they don’t kill themselves with their own unpleasantness and rudeness, they’ll drive the rest of us to drink.”
Etiquette is behaviour deemed acceptable to the current social norms, no? So, “correct” etiquette would be context specific. You’d behave differently at the Burning Man Festival than at a Catholic wedding. Presumably. Toenail clipping, cell phone use and swearing would be pretty damn rude at a funeral. In my world at any rate.
You define rude people as "…condescending, insulting, publicly chastising, impatient, etc. I could give examples, but I’m sure people get the idea. That is entirely subjective & doesn’t even approach a definition.
Personally, I’d define rudeness as crass disregard for someone elses’ wellbeing or comfort, which may or may not cross the line into the etiquette part of the definition.
My short answer to your question is, not necessarily.
The behaviours, such as cursing and smoking in public, that you mention in the OP are what I consider thoughtless behaviours.
Which can be rude. Although I think mostly those things are done because of the obliviousness of the perpetrators, I believe that many times, those behaving rudely simply don’t care. They do not think about others, so they don’t think they are bothering anyone.
Or worse, if it doesn’t bother them, then they believe that no one else should be bothered by it either. And that IS rude.
I’ve been brought up short by high-achieving Type A folks such as mentioned in the OP more times than I can count. Most often, I did little nothing to bring it on. It’s just a product of their drive for primacy and control, which our society excuses and even rewards. That is the real tragedy.
OTOH, I would pay money to see Elizabeth Vargas clip her toenails in public.
Nobody looses too many Friday nights until they arrive at that.
You know, traditionally, ettiquite was the descendant of elaborate court rituals, and their main purpose was not to protect people from eachother’s selfish urges (if Edward VII wanted to break wind at your table, or Edward VIII wanted to seduce your fiance, you’d better pretend not to notice if you not them wanted to maintian social standing). Ettiquite was a means of excluding people, not making them feel comfortable.
Luckily, there’s always been an element of common courtesy in ettiquite, constantly working to worm its way to the surface, and there are these parables such as the one of the “rude” (as in the definition “undeveloped or ignorant,” not “selfish and mean”) guest who knows no better than to sip water from his finger bowl, so his hostess does the same: so as to keep the events of human interaction running smoothly and without unpleasant conflict.
I try to be considerate. It’s an effort sometimes. I am an impatient Type A personality, no doubt about it.
In my perfect world,
Everyone would wave from their cars when you allowed them into packed traffic
They would allow you in as well, and you’d wave to them
Hi Opal!
People wouldn’t be so self-absorbed in public places, and consider the drives of others around them – such as in stores where there’s 30 items on the “10 or fewer” belt and people leaving carts in the middle of aisles along with their entire family (does it take 8 people to grocery shop?) or waiting until the last minute to decide how they’ll pay, etc.
Perfectly healthy people wouldn’t usurp the disabled parking stalls
People would smile at you if your eyes accidentally met, rather than scowl
Pedestrians might hurry just a tad when they see you waiting on their movement through a crosswalk (THAT one particularly rubs me wrong, because I always hustle if I see a car waiting on me wherever, parking lot or crosswalk).
This list could go on and on and on, I’m sure.
IMHO, rudeness is a trait of self-aggrandizing and entitlement. I openly admit that I do not suffer fools silently. Just last week there was an idiot father allowing his 4 year old daughter to stand on top of a basketball throwing game at a pizza parlor I was at. I stared at him pointedly and finally had to tell him how irresponsible he was. I’m lucky that I’m a (sorda pretty but gettin’ old) petite blonde woman and haven’t had to have my Hub defend my honor due to any of my snarky comments!
I wish universities wouldn’t be so willy nilly to hire every MIT, Caltech and Harvard PhD graduate who comes their way. I know the prestige and research these people generate is far better than average, but jesus talk about a group predisposed to being condescending, impatient & rude. College sucks sometimes. And its not like you can show weakness or confusion around a rude person, you just shut down and go elsewhere for help. Who cares about toenail clippings or yawning?
I would say one reason universities and colleges are in such a hurry to hire said MIT, Harvard, etc grads is because teaching is not really the number one goal of universities, research is. Research requires a lot of grants, grants are given to people who have impressive letters after thier names.
To me, etiquette is an important part of politeness, but not the only aspect. For example, dinner forks, using the wrong one not a big deal IMO. However saying “pass the salt”, not “pass the salt, please” is an aspect of etiquette. Saying your please and thank yous is an important part of life. I agree with you that being condescending or insulting is very rude, however I am not sure you can draw a distinction between etiquette and politeness. They go hand in hand to me. You said etiquette was not making a scene or being controversial, is this not an aspect of being polite as well?
As to those type A people who are condescending, insulting and impatient when I run into them I just think to myself how stupid these people really are, its nice you know more about atoms then anyone else on the east coast, but atoms don’t swallow
This is exactly the problem I have with people who are rude. Whenever I’ve called someone on it (not very often, but when someone spits a foot from my shoe, I’m likely to say something), I usually get the following defensive reaction:
“What? I have a right to (clip my toenails in public even though others find it offensive/cough all over the person next to me when I have bronchitis/yell at the top of my lungs on my cell phone while I’m trying to have a business dinner or intimate dinner/include anything else you consider rude. If others don’t like it, they should just leave.”
Yes, this person may not need to fear retribution even if they do obnoxious, gross things; however, how does this other’s person so-called right to do all these things in public trump mine? I also have the right to not have to dodge someone’s loogie, watch them clip their toenails, etc. At what point do their comforts supercede mine if we’re all equal? And why would I want to do something in public that could make others perceive me as disgusting or uncouth? People tend to react in kind - if I act like a jerk, people will treat me like a jerk. Similarly, if I treat others with respect, I’m more likely to be treated with respect. Why would I not care about that?
So I try to be polite, and I succeed more often than not, but it really bugs me that being rude seems to be thought of as some sort of human right. While not illegal, it not only makes the person being rude look like a huge asshole, it makes others far less likely to be polite to them.
Yeah, most rudeness is just imposing some behaviour on others that the majority of people would not like. Clipping toenails in public, loud phone conversations, coughing/yawning without covering your mouth etc. If your most meaningful individual act is to stand up for your right to not make free, effortless attempts to allow others to enjoy themselves, perhaps you should be looking for another rebellion.
