Clearly, our messaging failed to reach the majority of people in this country. That’s on us, and unless we want another GOP win in 2 and then 4 years, we should definitely learn from it.
Oh, and I voted “about the same”.
Differently likely. There is not much interesting to discuss right now in politics, and in the run up I spent a good amount of time there. OTOH the news is all post hoc political analysis and I have little interest in that. So scanning different fora for subjects of interest and real life …
I hear/read that a lot, with no suggestion as to how that is supposed to happen. People wish to claim that folk who voted for Trump have some non-bad reasons - yet I have not seen what those reasons are. Only that it is up to the Dems to try to ascertain those reasons - and try to appeal to of change those reasons.
I have not yet heard an explanation of why someone could have voted for Trump that is not either ill-intended (racist, anti-immigrant, misogynist, greedy…) or ignorant (thinking Trump qualified, thinking they will personally benefit from some unclear policies, misunderstanding economics…). As is often said about religion, those positions do not seem to be the result of rational weighing of objective facts. As such, it is unlikely that rational appeals based on facts will sway those folk.
It remains to be seen how badly Trump’s policies will affect his supporters and, if it does, if that will change their opinions. My money says they will figure a way to blame the Dems, the “Deep State”, the intellectual/entertainment elite…
I’ve quit some forums entirely because I can’t face 4 years of ignorance’s victory lap.
Here at the SD, it’s not just politics, so there’s reason to stay but I’ll be here less often and avoiding the areas I used to post most in.
Yep. How many of them blame Trump and Republicans for anything that happened during covid?
They didn’t feel that Democrats were pushing policies that addressed either of their chief concerns - immigration and inflation. Why on Earth would we expect the Democrats to do well if they fail to address these concerns?
While Orange Man is indeed Bad, the average American doesn’t have 10% of the civics knowledge they need to understand why the false elector scheme was bad. We needed to run on something that average person cares about.
In non-election years I don’t go into P&E much. I don’t like arguing politics. That pattern will most likely continue.
But the Dems did push policies on both - and were successful on inflation. How better could the message be gotten out that Trump tanked the immigration efforts, and that inflation was improving - after efforts to recover from Covid? How could anyone better change their incorrect “feelings”?
As I said:
That’s a sucker’s game. Excuses and deflection don’t cut it. What the average voter hears is “but Moooooom, HE started it!”. Instead of whining about that, we should have hammered home the plan, to fund the immigration courts, process these people, and ship out the ones who don’t qualify.
I think I’m going to have no choice but to post less. I mostly post in P&E. It’s funny, because while I’ve been on the board for decades, it was the 2016 election that really drove me toward much greater participation on the board.
I’m a political nerd, and I’ve enjoyed discussing the rules, incentives and constraints – constitutional, precedential, and political – that politicians operate under and how they affect their decisions and outcomes. But the consensus on the Board seems to be that Trump no longer operates under any such considerations. He’ll suspend the Constitution, eliminate elections, etc. And maybe that’s true. But I don’t know how to have a useful conversation about it.
I am muting a sizeable number of political threads. Just cannot stomach it right now.
I somewhat agree about the botched message on immigration, but not inflation.
Inflation is already pretty close to ideal levels. I think what the average person means by control inflation is bring prices back to what they were, but no one can do that. To trump’s credit (and I don’t get to say that very often), even he didn’t pledge to bring prices down.
So I’m waiting for any of the TV pundits who claim the messaging on inflation was wrong to say what the right message should be that is neither a lie nor “condescending” to the US electorate by trying to inform them.
At this point, I don’t think we are going to have a “useful” conversation about it. What we’re doing is making real-time observations about it, that will be read by future scholars the way Ken Burns read those Civil War letters in his documentaries. “My Dearest Clementine, today saw the Orange Turd fall to new lows, lows so deep they’ve only been visited once before, for twenty minutes…”
Yeah - I used to be a political nerd. Until it became clear to me that a number of factors were far more important than any expectation of civility, building consensus, and responsibly governing the entire nation (rather than appeasing one’s narrow supporters:
-obscure rules can be manipulated;
-the gaps between/within specific rules can be exploited;
-in the absence of clear enforceable prohibitions, one can act however one wishes;
-and, above all else, one’s primary goal is to solidify one’s re-election.
With a sympathetic judiciary, I think it is clear that our system of laws is imperfect enough that someone who wishes to can accomplish a great deal without going to the extreme of suspending the Constitution or eliminating elections.
I just muted the entire P&E forum. A “sizeable number” just wasn’t going to do.
Great idea!
That’s the thing. The P&E is so distasteful because our feathers have been plucked.
The smartest and brightest got it wrong, and it’s hard to take.
There comes a time to shut up about it.
Grousing, wishing, and explaining continually, the reasons and supposition. How could we have changed the outcome, are just more dry heaves.
The vomit is out, but you’re still wanting to puke. Nothing is in there.
This thread is how will you post. Not another of the many threads here you can be outraged and post. In P&E.
I think I’ve participated in a hijack of this thread.
Oops!
I haven’t been to P&E since Wed. morning, nor have I visited my favorite podcasters. I used to couldn’t wait to hear what they had to say, and now I’m just fucking sad.
I’ve been reading some ancient history to distract myself.
I am watching ASMR videos on you tube. Love to watch people tap and scratch books and assorted items.
Also reading library books.
Also starting to get my life in order to retire.
Plus have a massive to do list for house repairs/chores.
Just texted my 2 handymen to get started.
Life goes on.
I still will participate here in the categories I usually do - polls, IMHO, etc.
I never posted much on the P&E but did read pretty often.
It’s very much a grieving process with additional components.