Wait… what were the oaths made of?
Chocolate chip cookies. No, apple pie.
But again, they were just words. What matters are actions. I would submit that my parents (and me!) giving up everything of the old country stands stronger than just saying some silly words. I love my adopted country, despite its flaws.
Its fairly common in the clubs I belong to to have the Pledge and sometimes some sort of silence or prayer at the start of every meeting. I will stand and recite the Pledge although I do have some personal issues with the whole thing about flags. I keep hoping we’ll outgrow the whole thing but I don’t realistically see it happening.
I am familiar with the language; heard it spoken just the other day. It was a moving thing, evidently to everyone present. Including the functionaries who I suppose had seen the ceremony many times.
The words are supposed to mean the actions, of course. Are you not a woman of your word?
I’d guess the words were meant when they were spoken, a one-team meaningful ceremony as opposed to repetitious recitation on demand done solely to conform to societal expectations.
Thank you. Plus, I was eight years old when I took the oath. Regardless, I meant it. I see no reason to repeat it daily.
Anyway, when did I say I was not a woman of my word? I do pledge allegiance to our country. I don’t need some fancy words to do so, I live it every single day.
Is it really so hard to understand the difference? When I came to the age of majority I certainly had a choice. I could have returned to India. Having been born there, I could have gone back. I chose this country and this life.
Just curious, do other countries have something like the PoA?
In Switzerland there is no such pledge, and the only time we use the national anthem is once a year on the Swiss national day. And no one, and I mean no one, knows any of the words after the first line 
Orville mogul, my understanding is that most European (and Australia and New Zealand) don’t have anything like the PoA, and that people from those countries find our county’s obsession with patriotism weird and slightly off-putting.
While I’m not sure I agree with this “duty” you describe, I would certainly defend and protect this country if necessary. I like it here and have no desire to live anywhere else. Freedom is a great thing. I disagree completely that the Pledge is a “small token” of what is great about the United States or our obligation to keep it as great as possible. To me, a public pledge of loyalty goes against everything I admire about our country. The god part sure makes it worse, but the whole thing offends me.
As someone who says the pledge but omits the “under God,” I’ll respond: First off, I’m an atheist. Gods don’t exist, so mentioning a god at all seems every kind of pointless to me.
To your question about allegiance to a country [“to the republic, for which (the flag) stands”], yes, I suppose I am professing my allegiance to the United States. It’s not a perfect place by any means, but in my experience it’s got more going for it than not, and I don’t see myself being any happier living anywhere else. I don’t see fascism or jingoism in it at all – I know that other countries are better at doing some things than we are. In professing allegiance to the United States, I’m saying (at least in my view) that I’ll do whatever I can, within reason, to keep it a Pretty Good Place to Be: contribute to society in a positive manner, support our military, question authority when needed. I’ve got your back, US of A.
Certainly none of those activities makes me any different than, say, a German or a Finn professing allegiance to her country (in whatever manner) and doing the same activities, but I’ve chosen to live here and reciting the pledge is a way of reminding myself that it’s partially on me to keep it a Pretty Good Place to Be.
I don’t have a problem at all with people not standing during the pledge, or standing and not saying anything, or standing and reciting a recipe for sugar cookies instead – that freedom to do whatever they want is just one of the things that makes the United States a Pretty Good Place to Be.
[quote=“Flyer, post:37, topic:735165”]
If you have never seen Red Skelton explicate the Pledge of Allegiance, you should. He dropped the humor for a few minutes, and in those few minutes, he gave this country a great gift.
[/QUOTE]Skelton’s explication is what led me to take a good long look at the PoA, and decide that if I wished to take its meaning seriously, I should stop reciting it.
Pledging is a pretty solemn undertaking; it should not be done lightly. And if one is making a habit of it, one’s pledge isn’t really worth much.
I was born here and it’s as good a place as any. But it’s just a place to live. My only faithfulness is to God. I wouldn’t pledge allegiance to an entity that might expect me to betray that faithfulness, to wit:
This is insane. It is not my duty to defend and protect this country, especially by any means necessary. Particularly if many of those means go against what I believe is moral, again, in faithfulness to God. I can’t imagine having those words resounding in my head – it would be like having to watch military porn 24 hours a day.
I don’t feel that I’m obligated as a US citizen to recite the pledge on command, or to show respect for the flag or the other symbols of this nation.
I choose to do so because I believe in the values that those symbols represent, and because I hope that our country will progressively get better and better at living up to them.
I’ll respond, too.
Pledging to the flag is silly, but pledging to the nation is real, and is something I am willing to do. (And in so far as the flag represents the nation, that part doesn’t bother me.) This is my nation. I was born here, I choose to stay here. This country has been good to me, it is my home, and the home of most people I care about. And it’s a pretty good nation. Part of what I pledge is to try to keep it a pretty good nation.
One of the things I like about the US is the separation of church and state, though. As a Jew, I am very grateful for the religious freedom this nation offers. And the “under God” part directly conflicts with that separation. I’ve never liked it. And as an adult, I don’t say it.
In fact, the American ideal I most respect is the fact it doesn’t demand such oaths and respects from its citizens.
And you all have a rifle in the home there and have been in some bit of training and by association are willing to defend your country… right? Or are you going to run & hide, hide your sons so they will never hear of patriotism and so will never be in harms way?
I don’t think so. But those on this thread have no intention of defending this country of freedom they abuse from enemies as they don’t believe in that, just taking the good stuff or just moving along to the next place that gives them stuff for free.
I don’t much care about the actual pledge or anthem but the attitude just screams that they are proud of their contempt for the country and all those that suffered & died to make it so.
They will never do anything that will preserve the country if there is any risk to themselves… And are proud of it.
::: shake head and wanders away :::::
Oh piffle. I attempted to preserve the nation by not voting for warmongering stooges who sent our men and women into meat grinders in Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s a hell of a lot more patriotic than getting your panties in a twist over who doesn’t want to recite the words that you want to on demand.
Every week during our Toastmasters meetings. For me it’s rote, so I am hardly thinking of what I’m saying while I recite it.
↑ ↑ ↑ Didn’t read this part did ya?
Bawahahaha A non action is more important than an action.
That is the extent of your willingness to help protect this place of freedom? :rolleyes:
Yeah, I saw that and I commend your lack of attachment to the POA. But I think it’s more patriotic to vote against the warmongers than it is to enable them by enlisting.