Hmm, I can’t remember the last time the pledge of allegiance was recited in my presence. When I was a child, we said it in school every day (only during the time we lived in the US, naturally). But that stopped by 6th grade. So maybe when I was about 10 years old was the last time I actually said it.
I always remember my mother telling me that I didn’t have to say the pledge if i didn’t want to. She told me about the Supreme Court case that decided the matter. I loved knowing that no one could force me to say those words, it gave me a feeling of real empowerment. Though I never actually refused to say the pledge as a child, I enjoyed knowing that it was my choice.
If I were ever in a situation now where the pledge was recited, I wouldn’t stand and I certainly wouldn’t say those words. It has nothing to do with how I feel about this country. It’s the mechanical nature of it that I want nothing to do with, the sort of unthinking repetition of words that we learned before we had any idea what they meant. There is something quite creepy about little children pledging their allegiance to anything. And as an adult I don’t need some sort of bizarre public ritual to proclaim my commitment to anything.
Why don’t you go and advocate and work to make sure that all of our soldiers get proper armor, proper care, and mental health care, even when they return? I am horrified every time I see a veteran begging. Why don’t you go and advocate to ensure that we don’t send our boys and girls to die in a dirty war somewhere they never signed up for? What does the pledge have to do with all this? If it comes to war between the US and India which side do you think I will choose? Do you think my saying the pledge every single day will ensure I choose the US?
I stand, put my hand over my heart, and say it. And I’m not particularly patriotic. It’s just a ritual that has no meaning. Outside of some military context, I can’t even figure out what it means to pledge allegiance to a country. Is it just me saying that I will follow its laws? Well, I will as far as I have to, and otherwise just do what’s right–if the laws are good, then that will coincide.
My nation doesn’t have a set of beliefs for me to adhere to. That’s kinda the point.
I like to pretend the Federal taxes I pay go to things I believe in, like food for kids who don’t know where their next meal is coming from in this “greatest country in the world”, rather than for bullets and guns and armaments used to go to other countries and kill, not to defend this country on its ground.
I’m a sub and they say it all the way into high school in my districts. I stand, face the flag but keep my mouth closed and hands down. As a sub, I run the show and the kids don’t care at all. Now what I’m waiting for is when I start my internship and I’m actually with other teachers or someone observing me. Then I might expect to be called out on it, and I’d have to cite that I am an atheist, and I don’t believe in making a daily fascist proclamation that I’m loyal to this country, especially by venerating an inanimate object. Plus, we already have a Supreme Court decision on this that was cited before. If they still don’t like it, I guess it could turn into a media stink.
It is scary that we (Americans) make our young school children recite the pledge when they are too young to understand what the hell they’re saying. “Pledge”? “Allegiance”? Tell me kiddos, what do those words/concepts even mean? (Billy, get yer finger out of yer nose!) But do you all have it memorized yet? Don’t worry, we’ll do this again tomorrow morning.
Fuck pledging allegiance to any organization that thinks I should be in prison for any of a number of victimless activities (that I haven’t been caught at yet ).
I do stand though, I guess I don’t want to draw attention to myself.
I don’t consider group rituals to be binding in any way, and I can’t recall ever thinking otherwise. PoE, prayers of any kind, national anthems, etc. All meaningless drivel as far as I’m concerned. Therefore, I have no problem with standing up and reciting it for politeness sake or to not make a scene. You can bet your ass that I’ll be doing Heil Hitlers if I inadvertently find myself in a group of Illinois Nazis. It’s someone else’s ritual, someone else’s belief, and someone else’s obligation. Not mine.
In any case, I haven’t had to recite the PoE specifically since high school. And then only because I was a Boy Scout; doing the PoE in school ended after junior high.
When I was a kid, I stopped because I had/have religious objections to what seems like worshipping the flag. That was in the 80’s and I didn’t want to stand out, so when we’d say it I’d just leave out the words “I pledge.”
Just in case no one has posted it already, the Whitest Kids You Know did a good sketch about the pledge. - YouTube
Exactly. When I was covering West Virginia Board of Education v Barnette in my American Government classes, that was precisely how I responded when a student asked me why I didn’t recite it along with the class every Monday and Friday.
I think (hope) I made a few of them think.
This. I’m 60ish and remember thinking the pledge was stupid by the time I reached 8th grade and we didn’t even say the “under God” thing at our Catholic school.
And then I read Catch 22, heh.
In other news I have retired friends who live in the Villages in FL who told me that they all stand and say the pledge, with hands over hearts, before every event/meeting. Yipes, no wonder Sarah Palin had her biggest crowds there.
Which is why it seems crazy to me that the group most likely to be reciting the PoA most often is elementary-school kids. They really have no idea what it means, but at most public schools, it’s a daily thing.
For the same reason that any citizen convicted of treason should still be given the death penalty, even today. It’s just common sense.
No, in that context they are exactly the same thing, and even as a grade-schooler I fully understood one represented the other. Plus saying “I pledge allegiance, to the ideals that the US flag stands for” just doesn’t roll trippingly off the tongue…
Given the fact that the death penalty for anything is not only NOT common sense, but is morally wrong, always and everywhere, perhaps you could try again.
