Another hard-to-understand distinction. (And not that it really matters, but it’s “one and the same.”)
So it’s not a consensus of “UFOlogists” that you contacted that led you to believe that there was a need to separate the two subjects-it was “UFOlogists” that already objected to the mixing that contacted you.
If you take the definition of the word literally, yes they are both supernatural, but the blogs, radio shows, and magazines I’ve been referring to don’t talk about God and faith. And there is a group who sees religious significance in UFOs but they’re a pretty small group comparatively.
I can’t say it’ll never happen, but I have never heard or read something with paranormal in the title that was about religion. It’s always ghosts, hauntings, talking to the dead etc.
Which UFO magazine would you have us look at, then?
Look at whatever one you want. Why are you asking me?
No, they don’t. But if you’re not a believer in religion or ghosts or UFOs, you might see a lot of similarities in the stories and what they might mean or do for the people who experience them or believe in them. And they’re all supported by the same kind of nebulous to nonexistent anecdotal evidence. Which is why I think it’s entirely valid to link UFOs to other paranormal phenomena in discussion.
I don’t speak for UFOlogists. I don’t have a consensus from anyone other than the people who weighed in here. I’ve read in several places that hardcore UFO dudes don’t appreciate the mixing. I got some email to that point as well. I didn’t know you weren’t supposed to mix the two, but having looked at it for a bit I began to see the point. It seems like by mixing paranormal stuff with UFO accounts, you tend to draw a lot of fire toward the UFO crowd that they might not appreciate. The opposite may be true, but I don’t know. From the people I’ve asked the primarily paranormal people are mixed - some like it, some don’t, some don’t care.
Exactly. They are equally credible…or, not-credible as the case may be. A true believer is obviously going to look at them differently, but from a skeptical or scientific perspective they are pretty much the same.
BTWm RadioActiveRich, when you claimed that I told a falsehood because I used a certain word, I replied:
Care to reevaluate your claim that I told a falsehood?
I’m definitely not getting to a religious discussion, but I will say that I consider them three very separate experiences whether you believe in them or not. If you just lump everything you don’t believe in as nonsense, then you have a little growing up to do. As an adult I accept that there is more than one perfectly valid view of the World.
You said that a large number of “UFOlogists” lump the two together. Now you’re saying there’s no such thing as UFOlogists just because you and I might not recognize a distinction. There is a community of people who write, lecture, and research who are recognized by the UFOCommunity as UFOlogists. Your statement as applied to that group is bullshit. If you can produce a different group that you’re talking about, I’m all ears.
Quote me telling a falsehood.
I don’t. I do lump similar things together owing to the fact that they are similar, and I explained that I regard these things as similar in some important ways. I’m sensing that you don’t want to acknowledge that.
I have no problem acknowledging that YOU feel that way. I believe I just disagreed with you. That is an acknowledgement of both of our opinions.
I didn’t ask you to acknowledge how I feel. I don’t need acknowledgement. What I am saying is that linking these things together is neither unfair not invalid, and it doesn’t harm the discussion at all. I think it sheds light on it from another perspective for the reasons I gave earlier. Do you have anything to say about that other than “No?”
Put it this way…ask a Christian or a Muslim which one is right and which one is woo and you will get a different answer depending on which you ask. Correct? Well, to an agnostic it’s a moot point, since both are equally woo based.
This is the same thing. Ask a UFO person and a person who believes in ghosts if THEIR belief is more facts based and you are going to get a different answer. While to a skeptic or someone with a scientific bent it’s really all the same.
Yeah, they are both opinions, but one is actually based on a rational view and an unbiased review of the evidence (or lack their of) and the other is more a belief, since the reality is there ISN’T any evidence that either ghosts OR UFOs of extra-terrestrial origin are anything more. See?
There is not a “large portion of UFOlogists” who link the two. Again, if you have a list, I’m all ears. I suspect you post the link to an article or magazine, but unless you think every writer for Sports Illustrated is an athlete or unless the article is about a UFOlogist who links the two, you haven’t really produced anything. So, YOU were the one who said it. Who were you talking about? Not who did you go google in order to win your little argument. Who were you talking about?
You can substitute *ghost *for UFO in the quote above and you’ll find dozens of stories that read exactly the same. That’s why their lumped together.
And they and you are suffering from the same flaw - your bar for credible puts way too much emphasis on eye witnesses and human memory. It’s has been shown time and time again that both are easily manipulated (consciously and unconsciously) in regular and predictable patterns.
In short, well meaning and intelligent people are fooled by their own senses and memories all the time. Without physical evidence, it’s not much more than a ghost story.
My definition of “UFOlogist” at this time is anyone who writes on the subject in a positive manner…but I gave you a chance to clarify matters when you referred to them as a professional group by allowing you to tell me what an authentic “UFOlogist” would be, and you brought up degrees and peer-reviewed journals. Until you come up with good examples of both I think I’ll stick with my original definition, which means the links I have provided so far more than prove my point.
It appears that you and Czarcasm mean very different things by “UFOlogist”, which is why he asked you what the term meant to you. He’s speaking of a broader group than you are.