The problem isn’t that you don’t believe or that you believe you are right. It’s that you believe those who believe differently than you do are wrong. As I’ve said I won’t get into religion with you, but I will say that for me faith is neither anecdotal nor without evidence. Since you don’t know me and don’t know of the experiences from which I draw my faith, it’s impolite for you to insinuate that I am “wrong” in my belief simply because you don’t believe the same things. And to put it in a category of things you also find unbelievable is also wrong. I am a Christian, but I would never call a Muslim, Agnostic, or Jewish person “wrong”.
He is speaking of UFO Enthusiasts. All the same the statement is incorrect.
Here is the list of EVERY North American UFOlogist recognized by the organizations that make up the UFO community; (Some are living and some are not, but this is as complete a list as you’ll find). Also, some of these people are broadcasters and some are writers (not in the scholarly sense) and they do in fact write on other subjects, but even they do not consider the subjects one in the same.
Alfred Webre
Allen H. Greenfield
Art Bell
Bob Lazar
Bruce Maccabee
Budd Hopkins
Charles I. Halt
Curtis Peebles
Daniel Fry
Danielle Egnew
Donald Howard Menzel
Donald Keyhoe
Edward J. Ruppelt
George Adamski
George Knapp
George Noory
Glenn Dennis
Greg Bishop
Harley Rutledge
J. Allen Hynek
J. Randall Murphy
Jacques Fabrice Vallée
Jaime Maussan
James W. Moseley
Jason Murphy
Jerome Clark
Jim Marrs
John Edward Mack
John Keel
Leonard H. Stringfield
Linda Moulton Howe
Michael D. Swords
Morris K. Jessup
Nick Redfern
Orfeo Angelucci
Paul Hellyer
Philip J. Corso
Philip J. Klass
Raymond E. Fowler
Richard H. Hall
Richard M. Dolan
Riley Martin
Rob Simone
Robert Dean
Robert Sheaffer
Stanton Friedman
Steve Hopkins
Steven M. Greer
Whitley Strieber
Wilbert Brockhouse Smith
William J. Birnes
That’s hardly unusual.
That’s what you’re saying about UFOs, but the evidence you’ve shared is hardly convincing.
That’s not really true. If you believe in a global flood, for example - and I’m not suggesting you believe that, I’m just using it as for instance - you are simply wrong. It doesn’t matter where your belief comes from. What matters is that the facts show it is incorrect.
That’s right-unless and until someone shows me that there is some kind of official training and accreditation going on, a “UFOlogist” is anyone that calls him/herself a “UFOlogist”-and they are all equally valid in my eyes for just that reason.
Almost every situation that calls for witness testimony does so either because physical evidence is lacking or because it is not strong enough on its own. In a great many instances eye witness testimony outweighs physical evidence. Assuming that eyewitnesses have no value in no way increases your standard for credibility. These people report what they saw. The inferences that others make with that information in no way discredits their original account. And in any court in this country you need proof to discount eyewitness testimony, not the other way around.
So, then once again - who are you talking about?
- Where did this list come from?
- What organizations are you referring to?
- What are the qualifications for being an authentic “UFOlogist”?
Bonus Questions:
- What peer-reviewed journals did they publish in?
- Where does one get an accredited degree in this subject?
Cites would be nice, btw.
Answer the question. We’ve established that my list isn’t all inclusive and that you’re drawing from a much larger pool. So, YOU made the statement and I’m asking you to prove what YOU said. My list is now irrelevant. Who were YOU talking about?
People that call into late night radio shows, people that write for the UFO magazine I linked to, the people that write to the people that write for the UFO magazine I linked to, the same two groups that write for and to other UFO magazines, people that have blogs and fullblown websites that link the two(agains, see links provided) etc. ad nauseum.
Link to where you got your list, please.
Sightings probably pushed that theory, since my dad used to watch that show and talk about that theory. Believers sometimes cite this passage in Ezekiel as evidence of a link between religion or God and aliens.
I write for a UFO magazine. I am no UFOlogist. I’ve read on the subject for a total of three weeks. Callers to a radio show is your qualification but I need an accreditation to add someone to my list? I am a political blogger. Does that make me an expert on politics? The people on my list have testified AS EXPERTS before Congress. The people on my list speak at UFO Conventions and are WIDELY accepted as preeminent in their field. The people on my list are authors (of books not blogs), broadcasters (for decades), and would stand up as an expert in any court in the country. The majority of people recognized as UFOlogists by people who know a lot more on the subject than you and I do DO NOT consider paranormal and UFOlogy the same topic.
No one is arguing that all of these folks are frauds (although some clearly are). They may really believe what they are reporting, and the closer you record their observations to the point of the incident they are generally more accurate. But time has a regular and predictable way of changing the story. This isn’t really in doubt; there are plenty of studies that show how bad human memory is at keeping facts straight and not conflating reality and fantasy.
But their original observations, even taken right after the incident are often wrong in similar predictable manners. People in general have very poor observational skills. There are countless studies and real world examples of this phenomenon.
Are you arguing that we should take people’s stories about incidents that are out of their normal range of experiences at face value when we have logical and supported alternative explanations that are supported by physical evidence?
Once again, I’m the person who mentioned that the “discussion” has been linked. The argument we’re having now is whether UFO experts consider them linked. They don’t.
I really mean no offense, but the fact that you’ve been reading up on this subject for only three weeks and are already being published in a UFO magazine speaks very poorly for the credibility of UFO publications.
Okay, but if you take thirty statements from thirty witnesses and they all say the guy was driving a car and ran over the kid. Every one of them picks the person out of a lineup without question. Every one of them swears under oath that the person who did this is the same person. It doesn’t really matter than not every person remembers the make or model of the car. It doesn’t really matter because the pertinent piece of evidence has been established. And even if ten of them got the wrong guy - 20 people said the same thing! You don’t have contradicting witnesses. You have witnesses who you choose to disbelieve. That’s to be expected when they’re telling an INCREDIBLE story, but when 20 trained observers say the same thing - it counts.
Their “field” consists of speculation without any solid evidence, and they are looked upon as “experts” because they put themselves forth as “experts” and those that believe as they do support their claim. Whether they know more about UFOs than I do is certainly up for debate because I know what I know and you don’t, and none from either my list or yours has any more hard evidence than I already do.
I’ve written stories on sports and sewing too. Can’t run very fast and don’t sew. It’s about the research and the writing. What do you think writers do? They’re not usually experts in the field they write on. We write about experts. Our job isn’t to be the story, it’s to tell THEIR story. Pick a subject and I’ll give you an example.
If an entire community accepts them, pays to hear them lecture, buys their books, and the United States Congress accepts their testimony, I’d say that’s a better qualification that calling in to a radio show and having a blog.
Said another way - You don’t have a list. You have a generalization that is a false one.
I know very well what writers do, thanks very much. I thought you were attempting to demonstrate your own knowledge of the field, not your ability to write about what other people say.