Really leaning in on the “mavity”.
Re: Mrs Flood
Being the Rani was high on the guess list, the god of stories was another. Though a bi-generation was a bit of surprise.
There has to be something to the Doctor contemplating murder. It was nice to see Susan – if it is just his memory, why would she be older?
The Doctor has seen the Earth post 2025. He should mention that again. “something’s changed, I know the Earth survives”
With the mid credit thing, no preview.
ETA – It was also nice to see competent guest stars (Mike and Gary)
Brian
An OK episode. Kind of. These episodes still aren’t as good as back when Davies ran the show before. If the 10th Doctor was in these episodes, they’d still only be OK.
Better than Jodie Whittaker’s stuff, still less than what came before.
I think Jodie is a talented actress (e.g. see Broadchurch (TV Series 2013–2017) - IMDb ) - I think she was let down badly by the scripts she got…
That was a pretty good episode. The wrongness of it had a sense of dread.
Seemed more like a Wandavision ripoff than anything else.
But I liked WV so fine.
Early enough in the day to try to keep unboxed spoilers to a minimum, but this tactic of relying on deep knowledge of really long ago series for the big bads seems destined to turn off new viewers. Heck I’m old and have been watching the show since Baker days and have to look this villain up.
I will keep watching the show for as long as they make it, but honestly if it didn’t come back next year I wouldn’t be upset.
Specific questions.
Summary
Why does Rani want to bring Omega out of the antimatter universe?
How does Omega rank as more powerful than the Gods?
Why would Conrad’s fantasy include the disabled existing at all? Let alone with no need for medicines?
Will there be another level of big bad? Because Poppy being in the barbershop alleyway doesn’t have anything to do with the Rani. And there is much else that would ideally be more than just red herrings.
My first thought was of the Buffy episode “Superstar”, but later I thought of Wandavisuon*, too.
This reviewer wasn’t quite fond of the episode.
I do not remember the context (I think it was last season) but I thought “who are they going to bring back, Omega?”
I don’t think bringing back very old villains is inherently bad, but do agree that it has been overdone. Who’s next, The Meddling Monk?
I also started with the 4th Doctor (like a lot of US viewers), but did see The Three Doctors at some point.
I think I agree with Who Culture (youtube channel), that it would have been better to have the Rani reveal at the end of this episode rather than the end of last one. I also hope for a real reunion with Susan.
If this is the last Ncuti Gatwa season, is he the only Doctor not to meet the Daleks?
Brian
I just caught up on the last two episodes, I thought they were pretty good IMO, though I’ve never seen the original series so don’t really know anything about the Rani. To be honest all the big villains being from the older show is kinda becoming a bit boring, like I really have no clue who these people are. I didn’t even realize the voice at the end was saying Omega until the name flashed on screen. Is that how it was pronounced in the older show?
I didn’t realize there was a mid-credits bit in the Interstellar Song episode until reading this thread, just went back and watched that bit.
In the Interstellar Song one, didn’t it say it was the 800-something edition but it was the year 2929? How was Belinda already familiar with it from watching as a kid?
And just not done very well. IMHO. I 100% get not wanting to fall back on Daleks, Cybermen, Sontorans, Angels, The Master, and Saurians… but maybe create a new interesting threat or problem?
So Omega. Fine. Now not trapped in an antimatter pocket universe (nor dead obviously) but in “the underverse” - the plane that the gods of The Pantheon reside? Now one of the gods? The most powerful god? Or a force against The Pantheon and its magic?
Again why does The Rani(s) want Omega released? To bring back Gallifrey? Okay I get that she can’t just use the wish god to wish it back because there would inevitably be doubt.
How will Susan play into the finale? Is Poppy her Mommy? Is she regenerated as Poppy?
Were stories creating reality and the fourth wall breaks all just red herrings?
Was that really the Doctor’s lover Rogue calling from Hell with “tables don’t do that”? Why? Afterall that just feeds the critical doubt at just the right time for The Rani’s plan to work! Not helpful at all!
Ruby and the gang of differently ableds have to be important somehow?
Tenant’s version is doing what right now? Clearly stated he is not part of the finale. Just pretend he doesn’t exist?
I don’t know why I feel like we’re heading to a Scooby Doo pulling off a mask that so and so was actually X all the time finale.
I’m hoping that it ties together with a wow. Please?
She watched the original version
Which has the same host
It is a parody on something immediately obvious to Europeans but less so to Americans.
Ah. Yeah I’ve never seen that, couldn’t name a single song from it.
Count me as one who was not excited by the idea of the Rani making a reappearance, but what bugged me most was when Conrad was telling the story and kept referring to “Doctor Who” as the character.
I figured that was to enhance the wrongness of the world they were in.
Not even ABBA’s Waterloo?
Late to this thread.
Overall, I have loved these seasons and RTD’s return. Sure, a few aren’t great to me, but most of them are fun.
I agree that Jodie is a good actress, although I have seen her in very little other than Doctor Who, and it was the writing that wasn’t good. I still don’t like the Timeless Child that we got during her run. The last season, Flux, was okay. For me, she had too many companions. I really liked the modern take of Doctor Who and how they show that the Doctor is still the smartest but others know things. Not all companions were there to ask “What is it, Doctor?” but could contribute to explanations. I think they regressed with Jodie’s companions when they all asked that. It should have been just her and Yas.
I find the criticism valid, of course, like what you like. I have had to learn not to ask everything make sense or be tied together.
I have found one episode a season with Ncuti that I haven’t liked but overall, it has been great for me. I did read the story the author of The Story & The Engine wrote for how the original barber knew him. I have been watching the behind the scenes episodes. When everyone involved is having fun and enjoys it, I enjoy it more. I love that actors love Doctor Who and the chance to be a part of it.
As a side note, the host of Unleashed does a job an episode to get a sense of what it takes to make something and wow! I knew some of them, grip or Foley Artist but the job he did for Wish World was a script helper (darn it, don’t remember the name) and it showed how many people look for continuity errors or missed lines.
I loved the return of the Rani. She made an impression with me as a kid, so am glad she is back. I do agree we don’t know her motivation about releasing Omega. (I think the “weird” pronunciation to us Americans is just how they say that, like how they pronounce aluminum.) I found her also doing a bi-generation a bit much and would have preferred more on that. It was shown that the Doctor may be unique in the inability to control his regeneration, until Hell Bent. Although the new Master didn’t have control as he did in original who. (And I wasn’t impressed with Jodie’s Master.) In any case, I want the Rani to explain why she picked that but may have convinced myself that she couldn’t. I don’t know if it was known back then, but Archie playing the Rani, which is Hindi for Queen, is also great. This is the first I have seen of that actress and love her!
I thought Conrad’s story, and using Ruby for it, worked. It reminded me of Arachnids in the UK. It’s also what SciFi should do, as I understand it.
Watching it with my wife, I will say has been interesting to see a non original Who fan and her questions. She was confused about the wish god, the doubt, and the Rani. I said I didn’t know, either. (She thought Kate O’Mara looked like Dianna from V, which I can see.) I saw the early versions of The Rani as an amoral scientist. I hope it’s something like that for this but hopefully have an open mind about it.
That led me to think about renegade Time Lords and more could be out there. The Master, Meddling Monk (FASA in their Doctor Who RPG posited that those two were the same, with the Meddling Monk looking different to hide), the Rani, Romana, Omega (not so much renegade but not on Gallifrey), Drax, The Warlord, Morbius, Valeyard (?), Borusa, Tectuen (although that one goes with the Timeless Child storyline and also not sure how she fits in with Rassilon and Omega), and maybe Rassilon. There are probably more.
Thanks for the discussion!
There were a couple of Legends of Tomorrow episodes I thought of too
So much for the power of saying “please”?
Does reality shifting maybe not exactly 1 degree back include mavity is back to gravity going forward?
I thought the finale was terrible. A sloppy, nonsensical mess. And it had so many things you were obviously supposed to be emotionally involved in that I wasn’t. Like Poppy, for instance. She was introduced last week, always stared blankly and silently, and had no personality. I didn’t realize before now that it was possible for someone that young to count as being a bad actor. And I’m supposed to be on the edge if my seat as half the episode tries to bring her back?
I had earlier read a rumor about the end of the episode that seemed way too stupid to be true. No way would they use a piece of stunt casting that bad. But if course they did.