Doctor Who Series Five: UK pace thread [edited title]

More Doctor-ignorant questions:

What can the Daleks do? Why do they have plungers? Is there any excuse for them except the budget constraints of the BBC in the 60s? What if you run up the stairs away from them? What is their motivation?

If the angels can be harmed in this version by force of impact, why didn’t the soldiers ever actually shoot them? Would it have mattered?

Two reasons on the Daleks - one is budget constraints, the other is the designers look around, realized that every alien in every show was “guy in antenna/rubber mask” and decided to come up with an alien that wasn’t humanoid. The answer - something based off of the old-fashioned conical skirts women used to wear.

If you run up stairs they fly after you. You’re not exactly the first person to think of that one!

Their motivation is to kill everyone and everything. They want to be the only lifeform in the universe.

As far as the angels, the soldiers DID fire their guns in this episode - though it might really have been more for the light of it. And it didn’t do any good. I’m pretty sure that an observed angel is still invulnerable at a quantum level.

-Joe

Daleks are a bit of an odd one for me. The best Dalek story now only exists in reconstruction (The Power of the Daleks), and I think that they’ve mostly been a bit ill-used, over used, in the new series, but having said that you need to see the ninth Doctor story Dalek. There’s a real sense in that story of a Dalek being a relentless amoral killing machine.

That was new for the Eccleston Doctor, wasn’t it?

No, Remembrance of the Daleks, if not before.

I’m sure it was 60’s SFX budgets but now? Probably because dangit, plungers are funny.

I never watched seriously until Eccleston. I remember people laughing about Daleks finally being able to go up stairs.

They are iconic villains, never mind the manifest and multifold design flaws. :smiley:

I don’t think the angels wanted to risk sending someone back in time and possibly stop their plan before it began. The Doctor also mentioned the angels were panicking and trying to get away from the crack and that made them stop by instinct when they thought Amy was looking.

That, combined with the fact that they didn’t need to feed off people (cuz of the radiation) is an explanation I very much like.

-Joe

Mr. Lissar says:

Re: the duck pond, the simplest explanation (to me) is that there used to be ducks in the pond, but that somehow the ducks were eaten by the crack, as were the clerics in Flesh and Stone, and therefore could not be remembered. Thus the pond would continue to be a duck pond even though the ducks had been erased from time.

Also, going back to the Eleventh Hour, there are a number of moments when the Doctor experiences a pang of some kind. We’re all used to him being a bit off after his regenerations, but the timing of the episodes seems key. For instance, when he’s talking about the duck pond, he careens backward into one of his regen-fits. He says something about not being ready, and we assume he’s referring to not having completed his regeneration, but if the duck-pond is the center of a complex time-space event (like the Pandorcia eating a nice duck dinner) that might mess with the Doctor. And earlier, when he’s talking to the 7 year old Amy and she asks him if he’s come about the crack in her wall, he tries to say, “What crack?” but a pang interrupts him.

The only other weird lapse from the Eleventh Hour was during the kitchen scene, but I think that was for comedic value. :slight_smile:

I love all the speculation about the jacket, the clock, and the idea of him carefully crossing his own time line. On a second viewing I agree about the jacket and the mood change in that scene with Amy. I’d like to add that he seems to be very quiet and careful then, like he’s afraid to draw attention to himself, which fits in nicely with crossing his own timeline.

Matt Smith has said in an interview somewhere that the Doctor and the TARDIS have always had a sort of telepathic, instinctive link, and that in this season they were trying to highlight that aspect of the story. Combined with what’s happening so far, with the “inaccuracy” of the TARDIS and all, I’d be inclined to think that the TARDIS has a feel for what they’re dealing with and has been nudging the Doctor around in an effort to help out. In fact, if we’re run with the crossing timeline idea, the TARDIS may be trying to prevent him from meeting himself at the wrong time! (I love thinking while I type!) That could mean that if the whole fallen soldier thing from Victory of the Daleks is something we’ll revisit (if it wasn’t just clumsy writing.)

Of course, the danger with over pondering these things is that you can build up these intricate possibilities for the series, only to be disappointed by how the plot actually plays out. That happened with me (Mr. Lissar) during the tenth Doctor’s final days. I was convinced that, whatever else happened, we’d get to see Cyber-Dalek hybrids who have survived the Void and either serve Satan or are fighting against him, and Satan has inhabited the Master’s body-consciousness, blah, blah. I was glad to have my expectations shattered because of some good acting. :slight_smile:

Mr. Lissar out.

Except, in that case it wouldn’t have been a duck pond, since there never would have been ducks in it. So nobody would call it a duck pond.

Much more likely (through something that will seem obvious once we have all the facts explained to us) that it has something to do with Amy Pond.

-Joe

OK, but I couldn’t find any Karlsson designs that match the Karlsson clock in the episode. A few of that approximate shape, but they have simple 4-digit LCD displays.

Another thing that makes me think that Amy’s clock is a (possibly CGI) mock-up is the serifs on the “1” digits. Since when do LCD 1’s have a little serif at the top? They always try to minimise the number of LCD segments used, as in your links.

I don’t see the clock thing as being an error - it’s way too significant.

Maybe that day is the first one eaten?

-Joe

I don’t know if it would work that way. I think we can assume that at the point that an entity comes into contact with the crack it is annihilated, and that the reverberations of that annihilation echo back through time, erasing the entity from memory.

And as we all know, a duck’s crack doesn’t echo.

I’m just trying to establish that the clock display is not real. We can argue from there. :smiley:

Further evidence that the clock dispaly is a post-production effect:

  • There is not enough room for the first digit to be a standard 7-segment LCD digit.
  • The spacing between the hours digits is clearly smaller than between the minute digits, whereas in a real LCD display the spacing would be the same.

Also, the way the LCD display goes right to the edge of the bezel looks fake to me. I’m sure that that is not a real LCD display.
Now, you could say “of course it’s not, because they wanted the AM/PM indicator to be wrong”, but I think that aspect of what was already a brief shot is too minor to be intentional. From bitter experience, I have learned that what we take to be significant clues are often just simple oversights by a very hurried production team. And it would be just too nerdy for them to have to explain the AM/PM disparity in the season finale.

About the clock.

Listen, digital clocks are very well and easily made and understood things. We make milliions upon millions of them every year. Not one of those clocks, if working correctly, jump from 11:59AM to 12:00PM and also change the date. The date changes after 11:59PM. Clocks just don’t fuck up like that. They are cheap and incredibly accurate nowadays.

It was either intentional or for some production reason they cgi’d the display and just fucked up. I really doubt that they fucked up. They did cgi the display I think that is clear from a look at it again. It’s too clean, no alarm icon no other feature at all showing in the display. Just the time and date. Showing us exactly what we need to see. The day jumped 24 hrs. That day is missing.

Also, it’s the night before the wedding. So why does the clock say AM?. Either way the date shouldn’t change, but WTF?

I’m all conflustered about about this :slight_smile:

I believe this two-parter is also the first time that a human has been killed in a Moffat-penned episode.

*His *future, *her *past. But I disagree about her being his wife. That’s too easy an answer and it’s already been outright asked by Amy. No, I think there is something else going on. I also got the sense that the man she killed was The Doctor.

I have to say, this is a very weird show. I’d heard about it 20 years ago, but it was almost completely unknown, and even the adherents admitted it was a cult taste.

Given the geek factor of the audience though, I think there are some very weird choices. A space whale??? Seriously? First off, it’s a “space whale”? Second, it doesn’t need to eat or breathe? Third, it can propel itself in a vacuum? These are things the DW audience just lets slide?

The whole show seems like an exercise in adults taking script ideas from ten year olds and trying to make something decent out of it. “There are rhinoceros cops chasing a woman who sucks out your blood.” “Everyone’s stuck in a traffic jam by the bad government and are chased by giant crabs.” (I’ve started in on Series 3, too.) I’m not trying to just dump on the whole thing, but it is surprising, especially given the fanbase character and size it has.

I’m gathering the angels are not new villains? Is the duck pond the one outside Amy’s house? Does the Doctor seem to be implying that only he can remember that there used to be ducks in it?

Bravo, sir. :smiley: