One removes one’s hat when speaking to a lady. Until one is formally introduced. Mugging does not constitute a formal introduction.
I may be a pervert and a rapist, but I am a polite pervert and rapist.
Or cowering in fear and whimpering, “Don’t hurt me!”
Regards,
Shodan
Tip from a city gal: If you’re feeling nervous walking down the street, fake confidence. Walk fast, no eye contact, stay on your guard. Don’t assume everyone’s a mugger, but don’t assume everyone’s friendly, either.
I’m going to start keeping a stack of leaflets in my back pocket so I can start witnessing to anyone who looks like they might mug me. That ought to drive them off.
Or get me killed. I forget which.
When my wife and I were recently married, I had a situation happen with a friend of hers that cost me any possible friendship with that friend.
I have a daughter (and a son) and she hit it off with the friends daughter and became fast friends. My daughter invited her over and I would drive them to the mall, take them to a movie and have supper with them (at the mall). The friend refused saying that she couldn’t trust her daughter with me because she didn’t know me that well yet.
At first, I was ok with it…but I became angrier as time went on. A couple months later, she invited my daughter and my son to her daughters birthday party. My son said he didn’t want to go but didn’t want her to know he didn’t…so I let my daughter go but not my son telling my wife’s friend that I didn’t know her that well yet so I was uncomfortable with her being around my son if I wasn’t around.
She was FURIOUS! Livid and raving to my wife about my rudeness and how insulting I was.
Interesting that she could be so hypocritical even when my wife pointed out she had done the exact same thing to me. Her only defense was ‘that’s not the same’.
To this day she will have nothing to do with me.
Clearly you’ve never had someone push you down and do your math homework.
Yeah, this is my philosophy as well. If something about a strange guy (or a woman, for that matter) is skeeving me out, I don’t feel guilty about crossing the street to avoid him, or not getting on an elevator with him, or whatever. Sure, he most likely meant no harm and possibly is now feeling irritated and offended at me. But why should I care? If he didn’t mean harm, well, I offended a stranger. Kind of a bummer. If he did mean harm, I left myself in harm’s way out of politeness. Larger bummer.
Besides which, most strange guys do not give me the creeps, so when one does, I tend to trust my instincts and avoid him.
Normally I’m loathe to tell someone to ignore their instincts. But when your instincts only tell you to avoid people of a certain skin color, your reaction is probably not reliable.
You can add all the ‘I don’t want to be rude or racist’ disclaimers in the world, What the deuce? - if you’re going out of your way to avoid black people, what do you want us to call it? The “certain people” alone thing is kind of a giveaway that you know this. You’re judging them based on race, so what’s the counter-argument? ‘It doesn’t count because I’m afraid of them?’ ‘I’m too nervous to be more discerning about who I might need to avoid?’
If you want the answer to the question in the thread title, I suspect it’s “No.” If your first reaction is “avoid black people!” rather than doing something sensible, like projecting some confidence and being careful where you go, and when, then I don’t think you are making yourself safer. You’re probably lulling yourself into a false sense of security.
I’m reminded of Michael Moore’s old TV show TV Nation. He set up an experiment in which a black man in business attire and a white man in casual clothing both hailed cabs. The cabs would pass the black man and pick up the white man. Then MM would swoop in with the cameras and reveal that the white man was a convicted felon.
On 7/7, the day of the London bombings, I spent two hours walking home from work as all transport had been stopped. About 4 miles from home, the buses had just started up so I managed to jump on one. As the bus made its way up Edgware Road (known in London as ‘Little Beirut’ for the large Lebanese population), a south asian young man wearing long white robes, little beard and white cap got on, carrying a rucksack.
If you remember, one of the bombs was on a bus.
He sat next to me. Most people near me got off the bus. I sat there sweating, wandering what to do as it really did pain me to avoid him just because he was a young muslim. I stayed put, deciding that he would have adopted a more mainstream disguise if he’d been intent on blowing me up. I wonder what most people here would’ve done?
Another story…last week I was walking to the station, under a dark railway arch and thought I was being followed. I speeded up, as did the footsteps behind me. Crossed the road, as did the footsteps behind me. In the end I virtually broke into a run before I glanced over and saw that the young man behind me was blind, white stick and all, and was trying to follow the sound of my footsteps to the station. Eeek!
I repeat - this is one (in my experience) of the hardest attitudes to overcome.
Because women especially are so damn reluctant to admit that they might be at risk. They will think up all kinds of excuses to ignore their instincts, and one of those excuses is “maybe I’m being racist because that group of three black twentysomethings hanging around with no apparent business scares me.”
They don’t have that available if the twentysomethings are white - but they think up something else.
This is really, really stupid.
Those two teenagers coming towards me while I am waiting for the bus - they scare me. If they are white, I can avoid them. If they are black, I need to go thru all kinds of introspection to be sure I am not being a racist.
That’s silly.
Suppose they’re white, and totally innocent of bad intent. Have I done them some injury by avoiding them? Suppose they are black, and equally innocent. This makes it worse - how?
Or suppose they do have bad intentions. If they are white, I can avoid them without feeling guilty about it. But suppose the worst case scenario, those black teenagers really want to rob me, or worse. And I let my middle-class white guilt lead me to overlook my instincts.
This helps how?
Regards,
Shodan
Regards,
Shodan
I’m afraid I’m going to need a second cite for the idea that Jesse Jackson is a very intelligent gentleman.
I didn’t say a bunch of introspection is required here. But What the deuce? seems to be taking some pains to avoid the idea that he really is just judging people based on their skin color, or that it doesn’t really count if safety is his only concern, and yada yada yada. The fact remains that he’s doing exactly that.
That speaks more to the question in the OP: he wanted to know if minorities find that hurtful. I’ve never had the experience, so I can’t answer. But I stand by what I said before: if his ‘avoiding trouble’ instinct doesn’t tell him anything except ‘avoid young black men,’ his instincts are probably no good. That’s not a politeness or a political correctness issue: it shows he’s lumping all young black people together as a threat and apparently assuming everyone else is fine. Further, he’s not really talking about avoiding people who look like trouble. He’s talking about crossing the street whenever he sees young black men because he can’t think of a better way to avoid getting robbed. It’s a stupid solution to a nonexistent problem.
IME that whole effort is a waste of time. It makes no difference if the reality is in accordance with our notions of political correctness or not. Reality is what it is. If the OP is correct -
and male teenagers of group X are the ones committing the street crime he wants to avoid, then avoiding male teenagers of group X is a low-investment, high-return strategy for avoiding street crime - disproportionately higher-return than avoiding male teenagers of group Y who aren’t committing the crimes.
According to the police reports, it is not a non-existent problem. And the solution is not stupid - as the Jesse Jackson anecdote shows, even black people recognize the differing risks that different groups present.
The question asked was, is this racist? In other words, is it a worthwhile strategy given the chance that it might hurt the feelings of some random strangers who you will never see again?
The bottom line is that “looking like trouble” includes recognizing factors that most people would like to ignore - that some ethnic groups are disproportionately responsible for the kinds of street crimes that scare people. Therefore, that is one of the factors to consider when estimating how likely a stranger might be to attack me.
All you need is a shorthand. A mother with small children is not likely to mug you, regardless of her race - although she could. The black guy in the suit reading the Wall Street Journal is also probably not a street criminal - although he could be. The tired-looking black teenager in the blue uniform who smells like french fries might be a mugger, too - or he could be on the way home from his shift at McDonald’s.
And the mean-looking wigger who stinks of wine and tries to stare down everyone in eyeshot might be on his way to a masquerade party. Or he might not. Same if he happens to be black.
Simply saying “he’s black so he must be a mugger” is wrong. So is “I better not cross the street to get away from the five kids with the sleeve tattoos drinking at 4 o’clock in the afternoon, because that might seem racist”.
Regards,
Shodan
And I answered ‘yes,’ because it is: he’s saying he’ll be crossing the street to avoid all young black men because some of them might be muggers. His excuse was ‘it doesn’t count because the newspaper’s police blotter supports my decision.’ You might find that compelling, but I don’t. I think it’s a lame excuse.
A separate question. And one I haven’t answered, actually. I think the problem with What the deuce?'s plan is the flawed reasoning, and to a lesser extend the false sense of security, not the possibility that he will hurt someone’s feelings.
And that’s what the OP said. He said he’s going to “avoid certain people” (young black men). Not ‘anybody who looks like trouble, including young black men when the situation dictates,’ which would make sense. Just young black men.
Okay, catching up on some questions now.
My basic premise is that the police reports are overwhelmingly crimes committed by people of {group}. Some of the attacks are pretty brutal (at least one student ended up in the hospital). Basically, very few {group} are criminals, but, at least in this neighborhood, almost all criminals are {group}. However, becoming apprehensive of someone on the street is a multifactor process of which race is (guiltily) a factor.
This thread actually brought back a memory. Ironically, the one time I was assaulted by a stranger was not by a member of {group}. Actually, come to think of it, that man was not a young teenager either; I’d guess about 40 or 50, though it’s been a long time, so my memory is hazy. Make of that what you will.
By the way, how come no one is offended that “youth” is a factor?
Czarcasm: “Political correctness” is an idiom whose meaning is not immediately discernible from its constituent words. Look at wikipedia’s article.
BlinkingDuck: There was a thread I read somewhere on the SDMB where old people were lamenting how things have changed. One of them said “I remember when you used to be able to smile at a little kid without setting off an amber alert.”
Anyway, the verdict on “cross or don’t” seems to be mixed. I guess I’ll just start weightlifting and learn Judo.
Because on a long enough timeline, every career or habitual criminal goes to jail. You hardly ever see an old mugger 'cause they’re all in the slammer.
Ergo, it makes sense that us youngins are more likely to beat you and take your cash and Rolex.
My husband got beaten up and mugged by a bunch of black teens in Berkeley as he was walking home from the grocery store. I don’t think it changed his habit of walking to the grocery store but it makes me more aware of who I am walking past when I visit that town. Racist or not I don’t want to be a victim espicially now that I have a baby to bring along.
Funnily enough, you’re older than me.
Oooh, ooh, Mistah Kottah!
I was walking the dog at 0630 yesterday. The dog is red, and comes up to my thigh. I’m bald, male and Euro-Canadian, wearing jeans and a dark jacket. A small woman in a jacket with a hood and gloves was crossing to our side of the street as we approached the corner. In mid-street she altered her course and went of diagonally through the intersection, so that, as we turned the corner, she was parallel to us, on the other side of the street.
Woot! I’m the guy that people are crossing the street to avoid!. Incidentally, I was not offended, I figured she was tottery, and didn’t want to negotiate the dog, who might be jumpy - he’s not, he’s very civilized - or interact with the scary white man.