I didn’t cite an anecdote. I cited my experience. There’s a difference.
I didn’t say that either. I said we should look for evidence not that we should want it.
Looking for evidence is what you do when you are seeking information. Wanting evidence can be used as a way of avoiding an issue; you simply declare that there’s not enough evidence and then make no attempt to find more.
I have yet to say nothing is about race. There may very well be some things about race. Hell, I know that racism is alive and well. What I am against is the subjective application of racism as an excuse for all the woes of POC.
Ok, so don’t use asking for evidence as a stall tactic (which we can all agree is bad form)
We should always want evidence, we should always look for evidence.
Sometimes there IS not enough evidence to act and that is a feature not a bug.
So how are you going to look for evidence that something is about race if you’re going to remove all the labels about race and refuse to see that there are such groups?
When you see the individual racism … You were the one who needed groupings. I’m content with the calling out and dealing with it as it happens individually.
How on earth are you “calling out and dealing with” racism if nobody can be labeled as a member of a race?
That makes no sense.
@Kearsen1, you can’t address racism on an individual level. Let’s say that you have 50 job openings at a company, and two people apply for each one. Obviously, half of the applicants aren’t going to get in. Let’s say that one of those unsuccessful applicants asks why. “Oh, it’s because the other applicant was better-qualified”, or “They were a better fit for our corporate culture”, or “They have more experience”, or whatever. Well, maybe that’s true: In any event, it’s very difficult to disprove. But now, if you look at all 100 applicants, and it turns out that the 50 who got the jobs were all white and the 50 who didn’t were all black, now it’s very easy to see the truth. The racism might have happened at the individual level, but it can’t be addressed at the individual level.
Racists promote racism.
If no one saw color, except for racists, does anyone actually think that that would make this a better world? (Other than the racists, who then would be able to get away with racism mush easier.)
I don’t want to get into the argument of defining racism here, but this is not a credible argument. I gave up on worrying and arguing about racism as personal animosity, because that really doesn’t matter that much on a societal scale. My old neighbor hated a lot of people, but he didn’t enact policy that effected millions of people, so I don’t care that much.
As others have said, racism is based on group membership. No single act, in isolation, no matter how horrific makes a racist system. If someone working in an office decides he hates all his coworkers and takes action on that hatred, large or small, that does not mean we have an anti-office worker society.
As for how racism never happens to a group? Please explain the following things from U.S. history as just series of individual interactions:
U.S. chattel slavery (I truly hope you don’t need a cite for this one)
Black Codes
Jim Crow Laws
Redlining
Levittown Agreements
Then there are the less openly racists, but just as clear things such as:
Drug sentencing guidelines
School discipline disparities
I was going to make the same point with hair color. FWIW I completely agree with you. When I am asked for race, I always choose other and then specify human.
But there are other issues. If, on the basis of past injustices you want to engage in a bit of reparations, then you have to ask about race. I wish that was not necessary, but I am afraid it is. For the record, I am a straight white male (but Jewish) and I haven’t the faintest idea how I have benefited from white privilege, but it is virtually certain that I have. And there may have been occasions where I suffered from anti-semitism, but the couple I am aware of were nothing compared to what Blacks face daily.
But the world would be much better off if we didn’t distinguish people by races.
This. A thousand times this. Ask someone what race or ethnicity or gender or whatever they’d prefer to be called (and ‘no response’ is a valid answer).
There, problem solved. Thread ends.
Ever get turned down for a job because you’re a human? Ever told an apartment isn’t available because you’re a human? Ever been pulled over by a cop because you’re a human?
You say you haven’t have any idea how you’ve benefited from white privilege. Well there it is; you can afford to ignore race. People of other races can’t do that; they constantly have to be aware that other people may be judging them based on their skin color. And that people may seek to harm them because of their skin color.
And you figure everyone agrees on this? You think we can end racism by just explaining to the racists that black people don’t want to be treated unequally? And the racists will all say “Wow, we had no idea. We always thought they enjoyed it. Now that we’ve been told, we’ll stop.”
Show me where I said those things.
This is some “it’s bigoted to dislike bigots” bullshit.
Could you explain what problem it is that is solved by your solution?
The problem is that racists don’t need to ask. They already know.
They’re also labeling people by race, and thus promoting racism.
Of course it isn’t bigoted to dislike bigots, but it is bigoted to be bigoted towards bigots.
In the same way that racism can be attributed to minority people. (Uless of course you feel like minorities can’t possibly be racist?)
Strassia brings up some decent points which I am still digesting. I think my response lies along the vein of, that simply doesn’t happen anymore because we as a nation have moved past that. And racism, while still alive is happening as a huge minority, and not at the legislative or rule making level and can be dealt with appropriately (prosecution, derision, etc)
I can assure everyone that Mexican Americans can be racist as much as any other people can be. My GF is from Mexico and dislikes Cubans and refers to them with racist comments. Similar to how white people talk about trailer trash. Myself, I don’t get it.