So my visceral reaction of wanting to punch a guy wearing a nazi armband is bigotry or simply dislike? If I do punch him for shouting anti-semitic insults, is that then bigotry?
I mean, punching someone probably isn’t bigotry, it’s assault. Not hiring them might be bigoted but I think you are safe since bigots aren’t a protected class.
So is it bigoted to be bigoted towards bigots?
If you are being bigoted, then yes, it doesn’t matter to who.
Sexist, racist, all yes.
So, what you are saying is that some forms of bigotry are good?
Hadn’t thought of it that way. Usually, the connotation is that bigotry is bad, and so calling someone a bigot because they don’t tolerate the intolerant kinda sounds like an insult, like an accusation of hypocrisy.
But, if a bigot is just anyone at all who doesn’t accept any and all opinions, then, while it would seem counterproductive to call someone who fights against intolerance a bigot, it’s technically the truth. In fact, there is probably not a single person on Earth that is not a bigot. Every time that we lock someone up because their opinion about murder or assault or theft is different than ours, we are being intolerant of their opinions.
This definition is a bit problematic in that it is pretty useless, and can only cause confusion in pretty much any use, but if you insist that that is the definition that is used for this thread, then I can accept that.
So, I suppose that we should make a distinction between those who are intolerant of intolerance, and those who are intolerant of other people. Otherwise, disingenuous people may try play word games and use the fact that the word could cover either action as a dishonest accusation of hypocrisy. We wouldn’t want that, would we?
Ah, yes. The ‘that’s all safely in the past’ claim.
The results of that legislation are still with us even when the laws have been removed.
And some of Strassia’s examples are current.
For one thing, and for about the sixth time, there’s no way to respond “appropriately” to racism if you refuse to recognize that it’s happening. And there’s no way to recognize that it’s happening if nobody can be recognized as a member of a race.
For another: yes, it’s still happening at the legislative and rule making level.
Now that law keeps getting knocked down by the courts. But it can only be knocked down by the courts because the courts can acknowledge that African Americans are specifically disadvantaged by it – and they can only do that because they can acknowledge that people are indeed socially assigned to that racial group.
I just tell people that I a bigoted against stupid people. Ignorant people can be taught to change their ways, but stupid people remain stupid. But that’s just me and my way to cope with it, YMMV.
I showed you already. That’s how the quote feature works.
If you mean people who are genuinely incapable of understanding, being bigoted against them is obnoxious and unfair.
If you mean people who are willfully ignorant, try saying that instead.
What bigots are doing is wrong. The argument that bigots deserve the same respect their victims do is nonsense. It’s like arguing that child molesters deserve the same respect their victims do.
Good point. I’ll start being bigoted to willfully ignorant people.
Nice tautology. But disliking bigots for their bigotry is not bigotry.
An affected minority disliking an oppressive group for their racism is not a bigot. Because there is no prejudice involved.
Isn’t that what I said?
You must have meant something different by “racism turned around” from what I understood, then.
I understood it to mean something like African-Americans disliking Whites because of Whites’ history of racism towards them. That’s not bigotry.
No, disliking something is a personal preference.
Specific to racism though, you do agree that racism can and does go both ways?
I don’t understand what you mean by “go both ways”.
Do I think a Black person can be racist? Yes, I do. Seen it plenty of times myself.
Do I think an African-American person can be racist to a White person in the USA? Or a South African Black person to a White person? No, I do not.
Why not? Do some black people not hate white people for the color of their skin? Id be interested in the delineations you draw, African-American, or South African vs black?
To be fair, he may have just been talking about the problem of how he should go about labeling people, not the problem of how others do, nor the larger problem of racism.
I would be interested in hearing what problem it is that is solved, though.
Some might. African-Americans and South African Blacks are not among them. They dislike White people because of what they did. That’s not prejudice, that’s an earned response.
What was confusing about it? I said Blacks could be racist. Often-times against other Black groups, or Khoisan, or Indians.
The problem isn’t necessarily the labels, it is how they are used. We, as a people, are always going to label others. Currently the only use(s) those labels have are divisive.
Maybe technically it isn’t the label, but people.