I am considering taking a federal civilian job on the General Schedule (GS) pay scale. I know my (eight) years of military service carries over in terms of benefits, retirement & leave accrual. But do I get a jump on the “steps” within my grade? Is there a convention or is it negotiable?
Basically, the position is a GS-13. Does eight years active duty move me up the steps?
Usually any military service will bump you up the scale a little bit, but it depends how the GS position relates to the work you were doing in the military.
If you’re coming in with a lot of existing military training directly beneficial to the government work, they’ll recognize that and pay you for your skills. If the skills you have do not really apply to the GS job, they count for less.
Good luck getting a 13 with only 8 years… I know guys who’ve retired with 20 (O-4’s and O-5’s) and went in as 13’s and 14’s.
Are you an officer or enlisted? I’d imagine that makes a big difference.
It depends a lot on your career field, and whether a GS-13 is considered a really high grade for the field in question. FWIW, where I work a captain with 8 years would fairly readily transition into the low end of a GS-13. But that’s because if he worked where I did, he’d be an engineer. And GS-13 isn’t a really high grade for an engineer. If your area were finance or contracting, it might be a different story.
Military Service is a benefit in the hiring process and in the Reduction in Force (RIF) process as far as federal hiring goes.
However, I think this echoes 1010011010’s post, all new hires are defaulted at the step 1 level. The agency then may take into account “superior qualifications” to set a new step level on a case by case basis.
As I read the OP “Military Service” on the face of it would not *necessarily *qualify you for any additional Steps by convention. It could. It can be a negotiation.
If they play hard ball, it is not disrespect, it is how they read the Law in your case.
First, something for the OP: link
There is a general, loose sort of equivalence between GS and commissioned service.
SES(Senior Executive Service) — O-7 and above.
GS-15 — O-6
GS-13, GS-14 — O-5
GS-12 — O-4
GS-10, GS-11 — O-3
GS-8, GS-9 — O-2
GS-7 — O-1
A full chart is here.
This chart has not been updated in years. Meanwhile, there has been grade inflation in the GS series but no comparable grade inflation in the military grades.
I’d say that in general, people in the military grades have VASTLY more responsibility (although not necessarily more experience) than civil servants with a comparable grade. For evidence, just consider that we are discussing an entry level position graded as GS-13, equivalent to a Navy commander or Army lieutenant colonel!
And yet, that is the chart that keeps popping up - whether it’s the Navy version, or the USPHS version, or any other version. I suspect that if the government felt the need to update it, that they would do so. And yet they do not.
People generally understand that Civil Service grades are not equivalent to military pay grades. And people also understand that most CS slots are specialised, and that the Civil Service is not as operationally hierarchical as the military.
And even in the military, a significant proportion of the officer corps are not line officers, and do not carry the level of supervisory load that the line officers do.
An O-5 medical officer doesn’t generally command a battalion. An O-6 attorney doesn’t generally command a regiment. There are scads of O-4/5/6 scientists, specialists, physicians, nurses and the like who do not routinely exercise the same authority as the corresponding line officers.
I agree heartily that if you are talking about military supervisory issues, then yes, the chart does not describe that correspondence well. If you are talking about specialised, non-line-officer slots, the chart is reasonably valid.
The error is in exclusively viewing the grades only in terms of supervisory career tracks.
It’s one thing to be a company or battalion level officer at O-4 or O-5, commanding as a line officer, versus being a medical officer or scientist at O-4/O-5.
The general civil service schedule ranges from GS-1 to GS-15 - GS-13 through GS-15 are considered to be somewhat senior positions.
In my neck of the woods, “entry-level” hires start at GS-11 or below. In my area and in similar career tracks, we’re specialised science types, and that GS-13 requires at least an MS/MA degree, as well as substantial experience.
The chart equivalencies may well be inflated in terms of non-scientific or non-technical career tracks, but the the correspondance works in terms of civil service versus non-line/non-supervisory military slots, like scientific or medical.
In my contractor days, a colleague entered USPHS service at O-4, after service as a USAF physician/flight surgeon at the O-5/LTC-level.
The principle weight in GS/CS hiring is a combination of your score, based on your experience, knowledge, abilities and skills, as well as the inclination of the people to actually hire you. Prior military service may bump your score a few points, but it has nothing to with your prospects. Where it does make a difference is your retirement status - prior service does count in terms of when you can retire at full benefits.
Just to be clear the OP seemed to me to be asking about Steps which is completely different than Grades that are set in stone by the time a job is advertised - I know that no one has said any different on this thread … but for the purposes of anyone reading this who aren’t as well versed in the subject as the SMEs on this thread I want to point that out.
I don’t say that statement is wrong only that it needs to be fleshed out some.
To have 5 or 10 extra points added to their score as a veteran does means that if they are minimally qualified they are almost always going to be on the Certificate of Eligibles who the Selecting Official will need to choose from. IRL an all sources open job that everyone on earth is applying for maybe that wouldn’t help - but usually (?) say ‘often’ to keep it GQ - that point boost is going to be an important foot in the door.
There are also several ways that Veterans may be hired non-competitively & I would say the first and the third examples often come into play on CS as well:
cite
*Veterans Employment Opportunities Act
This law allows preference eligibles and veterans who have been separated under honorable conditions from the armed forces after substantially completing 3 years of continuous active military service to apply for jobs announced to candidates outside DOL under merit promotion procedures. If you want to apply for a job in DOL under this law, submit proof with your application that you are a preference eligible or veteran, e.g., copy of DD 214.
Veterans Readjustment Act Appointment
This law allows you to be hired without competition at the GS-11 grade and below, if you qualify for the job and are an eligible veteran. Generally, you must have served on active duty for more than 180 days, any part of which occurred after August 4, 1964 (or February 28, 1961, for those who served in the Republic of Vietnam), and been separated under conditions other than dishonorable. You may be appointed within 10 years of your last discharge from active duty. This time limit doesn’t apply to a veteran with a 30% or more service-connected disability. If you apply to DOL for a job under this program, submit proof of your veteran status with your application, e.g., copy of DD 214.
30% Disabled Veteran Program
If you are a veteran, you may be hired noncompetitively for any Federal position for which you qualify if you retired from active service with a disability rating of 30% or more, or were rated by the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) within the preceding year as having a compensable service-connected disability of 30% or more. You are initially hired for a period of between 61 days and one year, or for a period not to exceed 4 years, but an appointment under this authority can be made permanent at any time. If you apply to DOL for a job under this program, submit proof of your disability rating by the Department of Defense or the VA.*
Steps and Grades are indeed different - there are ten steps within grade, and as one rises within grade, base salary increases. It is true that being hired at, say, step 3 versus step 1 means more pay up front.
Here is the 2008 Base Pay Schedule for General Civil Service - depending on your location, there is a local adjustment, which can be rather substantial.
There are two steps to getting hired: getting certified for the job series, and for a range of GS levels, and getting hired for the actual job. If the people really want you, then getting certified is key. If they have someone in mind, and if you are not that person, then your score is irrelevant.
I agree that a 5- or 10-point veteran’s preference is often irrelevant. I am aware of a federal agency where it is a common practice to readvertise positions when an undesired vet “makes the cert.”
jimmmy hit the nail on the head when he said
My question is, as a GS-13, will my military time move me up the steps within the GS-13 grade? Military service does, I believe, carry over in terms of seniority, rate at which one accrues leave, etc. Does it also carry over in terms of moving up the steps?
No it does not. The agency may take into account “superior qualifications” to set a new step level on a case by case basis. That’s the only way a new hire can get extra steps.
So “Military Service” on the face of it would not necessarily qualify you for any additional Steps by convention or by law.
Your Military service could be used to determine that you have “superior qualifications”. It can be a negotiation. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be so by convention or by law.