Aha! I found it, well them really.
You’re buying chocolates and red bikinis and so forth for her, but she never calls you and brings up her fiancee in conversation? Mark me among the growing pool of people who think that you’re playing the surrogate boyfriend for her and it’ll end badly unless for some reason she decides that you’re such a good surrogate that you would make an even better actual boyfriend and she drops the other guy. But if she’s not even calling you…? You think that she’s gonna break off her engagement to a guy to date a guy that she doesn’t even call? You gotta get over her.
If it’s going to kill you to not know for sure, then you have to straight-up ask her. Say something like, “I know you’re engaged, but do you think that, had we met in different circumstances, we would have gotten together?” It gives an out in that if she says no and reasserts her commitment to marry the guy, then you’re covered because you already acknowledged her engagement, and it lets her know in no uncertain terms that you have been thinking about her and want to be more than friends. But IMO she sounds like she just likes having a guy around physically and buying her stuff. When fiancee becomes husband, all that’s going to stop abruptly.
So, you think she likes to have a friend who has a crush on her and gets her gifts, inappropriate ones included?
I can’t really control my hope, the same way I can’t control my nerves before a speech that has zero impact on my life. I am not trying to find it, I am trying to extinguish it. That is the main purpose of this thread.
Clearly doesn’t want what from me? To do things for her? Like what? Helping her with her homework? Taking her out? Buying her a small (sub $20) gift every month or two? Going to the gym with her? Please be more specific.
Absolutely. That was the main reason I started this thread.
That’s what I’m trying to do.
I assumed as much.
I am capable of analytical thinking and i enjoy good arguments. I have also been proven to be an idiot more times than I can count. Don’t assume too much!
I know what the reasons are. For one, she’s beautiful and she’s my type. She has a killer smile, the most beautiful brown eyes I’ve ever seen and bikinis were invented for her. Every couple of weeks, it seems, I find out something really nice about her (Latest is her note taking for vision impaired students) or something fascinating about her past, or…well, you get my point. I wouldn’t say I’m entranced, I have a crush on her, simple as that.
Yes, I won’t wait much longer before I come clean and close this chapter once and for all.
Look, it’s very obvious to me. She probably likes you. I’d have to know more about the girl and all, but a long-distance relationship is usually doomed unless you have some plans to get back together with the other person soon. Usually the longest I’d say is 6 months. I’ve been in one that worked (although we broke up a year later for different reasons). Here’s what happens. When you are together it’s normal, but then she leaves. Then you have a two-week period where you miss them, and after that you basically forget about them but keep them in the back of your mind. It’s weird to see your girlfriend after a period of 3 months.
Now about her. She’s giving you jokes about getting her chocolates and stuff. That tells me that she wants you to get the hint. I’ve never understood guys keeping a harem of girls to be friends with. Friendship is great and all, but if you lose it then you’ll be okay. It’ll still probably be salvageable if you do it while drunk or something. Even if you aren’t you could probably play it off. I find the friendship with a female that you are attracted to, to be a silly situation anyway.
Secondly, who cares if she has a boyfriend somewhere else? There’s nothing wrong with making a move. It’s what happens to people in long distance relationships. There’s no getting around it. Better you than someone else. She’ll eventually break up with him. The point is that the only thing that keeps people in relationships after the flame dies is that they have a different kind of love than they did when they began. It’s less exciting, but it’s very comfortable. She doesn’t have that anymore, unfortunately.
So make the move, you won’t regret it if you really like her. It’s called being honest. It’s her decision to dump her boyfriend. Kissing a girl with a boyfriend isn’t the end of the world. Maybe you do and she decides she can’t do it? So who cares. You’ll still be able to go on being friends with her. Also, her inviting you to her house? With wine?!?! Hello? She’s trying to get you drunk so you’ll make a move! Honestly, what girl, who has a boyfriend invites another guy over to drink wine? It’s a girl who likes another guy, that’s who. I’ve had girls for friends before and I’ll say that I’ve only made friends with the ones that I wasn’t attracted to for whatever reason (usually personality). That’s fine, but you can’t find yourself trapped in the friend zone with a girl you really dig. So the most important question is, I suppose, do you want to be with her? If so, go for it, she’s already given you enough signals.
I once kissed a girl because she asked me, specifically if I wanted to go outside to smoke a cigarette with her. I only met her that night. She actually spent a lot of time telling me how she was smarter than I am. I had met her 30 minutes before, and regardless of how I come off, it’s a sign that someone has some kind of feelings. So later on at my friends house she asked me to go outside and smoke with her and I planted one on her! Pretty easy to tell most of the time.
So make your move. The boyfriend somewhere else will eventually understand. He took that risk when he moved away. It’s her choice and it seems as if she’s already made it
Whoops! I didn’t see the second page of posts! So apparently she talks to you about her fiance?
No way dude…Not gonna happen. Stop messing around with her and move on. It sucks but it’s what you gotta do.
Oh fer Christ…
Man up and make a move. If she says, “no”, then so what? At least you know and you won’t be wasting your time, money, and emotion any more. Grow a pair and take a chance!
Not necessarily; if the fiance is as weak-willed and/or desperate to get something out of this girl (in his case, citizenship) as the O.P. then he just might continue to put up with her keeping amor platonicusp around for giggles. Heck, some people get off on this kind of thing; Google “cuckholding” and you’ll get a whiff of the whole subculture. But methinks that the O.P. neither wants or should be the object of someone else’s emotional sadism.
To the O.P.: this has been all fun and games up to a point, but everytime you post some new tidbit of information the reek of desperation becomes more cloying. This girl is insane–perhaps in the clinical sense of being a borderline/sociopathic personality, or perhaps just enjoying the attention–but she’s making you crazy as well. If she were “just a friend” she would have rejected, or at least been very awkward in accepting, the gift of a red bikini. (And yes, that’s totally inappropriate for someone who isn’t a romantic boyfriend or a close woman friend. Would you, unsolicitied, buy your sister a bikini? Yeah, didn’t think so.) And no, she isn’t all romantic about you either; if she were, she’d have done something obvious by now. And while your actions have been (there’s no other way to put it) not just slightly creepy, she hasn’t actually been creeped out by them, which indicates that she knows exactly what she’s doing with you.
You shouldn’t just back a little away from this chick; you should step away as quickly as you would from a landmine. Even if she were amenable to romance, I have to question whether you’d want to be involved with her; if she accepts an inapprorpriate gift from you, then immediately tells her long-distance boyfriend, she’s pushing buttons to get the desired response from both of you.
You need to start focusing on all the negative things about this girl, like the fact that she’s yanking your chain harder than a marathon session of Robin Williams-tearjerkers. Every time you have a conversation where one of these jewels comes up, step back and ask yourself what the point was, and what is she getting from this. (“Never appeal to a mans better nature. He may not have one. Invoking his self interest gives you more leverage.” — Robert A. Heinlein) Get good and pissed off (but mostly at yourself) for being duped. Then go and find some girl with beautiful brown eyes, a killer smile, et cetera who doesn’t have a soon-to-be “paper marriage” occluding the horizon like an incoming meteor.
Or just shuffle up and pop the question on this girl. Dollars to dingo’s howls that she jumps back from, if isn’t completely offended by, such bluntness, but then you’ll know where you stand, and you can stop letting her flip your switches on and off whenever she feels like it. Or she’ll say less and you’ll get involved with a confused young lady/experienced manipulator/psycho hosebeast who will give you even more grief every time she bats her eyes at some other dude.
But for the love of Og, stop shuffling around like you’re in footsie pajamas and just do something!
And with that, I’m going to turn the blunt-veering-toward-misogynist baton back over to msmith537 because he wields it so much better than I do, and I prefer it when he says the things that I think.
Stranger
Just ask her “How many drinks does it take to make you dizzy.”
If she says “Three, and don’t call me Dizzy” then you have your answer 
I will make my move. it is the inevitable conclusion of this…emotional masturbation. I’ve never been rejected before and it will be a most salutary experience, I have no doubt.
The thing is, some of you are taking this way too seriously. Don’t get me wrong, I commend your selfless emotional involvment and your zealous attempts to steer me on the right path and I thank you for both. I want you to stand reassured: she is not going to make me into a wreck of a man or erode my soul (to shamelessly steal from the eloquent prose of Penny-Arcade’s Tycho Brahe). I have a crush on her, no more, no less. I believe 12 year-olds routinely get over this sort of thing without much fuss. Surely, I can rise to the occasion?
To reiterate: You do not need to convince me to tell her. I already am convinced. Don’t worry about my long-term emotional well-being either. I’ve come out of a 6-year old relationship a few months back and THAT was tough. This is peanuts in comparison.
So take a deep breath, chill and have some fun with your answers. This thread is meant to be entertaining, not depressing. And if you cannot bear to speak of anything BUT me telling her, then how about you suggest ways to do it. I’m sure to like one of them and use that. Right now, my sentence is:
“I know you’re in a relationship and I mean no disrespect, wanna ditch your BF and copulate with me?”
Nah, I kid. It’s really:
“I know you’re in a relationship and I mean no disrespect, But I must be honest: I have feelings for you and I need to know how you feel”.
I’m not completely happy with that declaration. 3 sentences before declaring myself seem a tad excessive maybe? Too cautious perhaps? In the next two sentences, I use feelings and feel close to each other which isn’t very good prose imho (but maybe I’m nitpicking). And is “I have feelings” blunt enough?
And remember, this is not a thread about the palestino-israeli conflict. Lighten up.
ps: I will tell her.
Yes! A lighthearted answer! I didn’t get the joke though. After some googling, I believe you meant: “How many drinks to GET you dizzy”.
Here are some tests you can run that will give you valuable feedback.
Stop calling her. It is important that you stop calling because you’re busy doing other things. The idea of joining the theater group is a good one, because you can also meet hot chicks with brown eyes and killer smiles there [MySpace links with photos of my hot co-stars withheld]. She may casually ask, ‘Where have you been?’ and you’d better have an answer better than, “I dunno, I was seeing if you’d miss me.” Part of the test involves telling her you will be having a social life apart from her — because if she is in fact into you, it would be a crippling blow for any relationship to just vanish from her life without warning. Ideal test result: she starts calling you. However, there is no downside here: if she isn’t into you, then you’ve put yourself in a position to find somebody else.
Ask for her help with your new online dating profile. Let her know about any encouraging nibbles you get; lie and invent some if you feel it’s necessary. Her reaction will tell you volumes about whether she is into you. Ideal test result: She is grumpy about the idea, and acts jealous, resentful, or is unwillingly/grudgingly wishing you good fortune. If she seems genuinely happy for you finding someone of your own, it’s not happening with her. Because you’re starting up a dating profile to find somebody else, even if she’s not into you, there’s no real downside. See above.
Ask about her wedding plans. If she’s really into him and excited about the wedding, expect to listen for hours to all the details. Ideal test result: she tells you how she really feels about her fiance.
Spit in her milk. This is … this is the control group. For comparison purposes. Yeah.
I was thinking of “make” in the sense of the 24 defininiton on Merriam-Webster “24 : to persuade to consent to sexual intercourse : SEDUCE”
Thus it sounds like “How many drinks does it take to seduce you, Dizzy?”
Oh. I didn’t know that. I don’t think I’ve ever heard the word make used in that fashion.
I’ve read enough.
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She is not your friend. She never initiates contact with you. Where’s the friendship? I expect friendship to be interactive. Sometimes I call, sometimes the other person calls.
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You are not her friend. What kind of friend gives an engaged woman romantic girfts? Be honest. You have the hots for her.
So what does that make your relationship? Ambivalent.
You are, at best, her auxiliary boyfriend, for when the real boyfriend isn’t around. You make her feel all girly, but without the messy feelings.
Here’s where you stand right now. You wasted candy and wine on The Most Romantic Night Of The Year ™ on a practice date.
There are only two ways to bring the situation to a head.
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The oblique question: “I know what he’s getting out of it – a green card. What are you getting out of the marriage.” If you have any kind of relationship she’ll give you an honest answer.
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The direct question: “I feel like I’ve been getting mixed signals from you, and to be honest, I think I’ve been sending you some mixed signals. So where do we stand?” Again, if you have any kind of relationship she’ll give you an honest answer.
And remember, a not-quite-honest answer is an honest answer. Not the one you want, but still an honest answer.
Jim: "I met a girl down on that island,you know,what’s it called?
Bill: “Jamaica?”
Jim: No, I didn’t even kiss 'er.
Here’s a possibility that might explain her behavior. She’s obeying the rules, you know, the social rules that women feel very strongly about while guys pretty much obey their hearts and penises. She is engaged and plans to go thru with the wedding and likes the guy enough that she doesn’t want to hurt him. She probably feels some attraction to you, but it would be against the rules to have a non-platonic relationship. It would also be a violation to “lead you on” by calling you or otherwise initiating any affection. But she still likes to be around you enough that she gets together when you call (she’s innocent, it wasn’t her idea). If she really thought of you totally platonically, there’d be no harm in her calling you, so the fact that she doesn’t might be a good sign. Suggesting the valentine was a slip - she took it back as soon as she realized it would be breaking the rules - but she wouldn’t have thought of it at all if she didn’t think of you in at least a slightly romantic way.
Another thought - one way of putting your cards on the table would be to have her read this thread. In a way, it’s very romantic.
It isn’t at all romantic. No way shape or form. He’s being very passive agressive and so is she.
fimy, yes I think she just likes having someone around to give her attention and gifts. What girl doesn’t like that stuff? The difference is that most girls/women have an attack of their conscience at some point and make it clear to the guy that they aren’t interested in a romantic relationship.
She is making no effort at all in this “friendship”. kunilou is right.
I’ve been this girl before (when I was young and beautiful with no kids - brats gave me wrinkles and gray hair 
). It is fun and terribly satisfying to the ego to have someone be completely smitten with you and shower you with gifts and attention.
I can guarantee you that the conversations she has about you with her girlfriends (and even with her fiancee) are in no way sympathetic towards you. She says to them “fimy called again. Ugh - I wish he’d stop calling all the time. Can you believe he gave me a bikini! I know! Yeah, I know - but I did tell him I was getting married this summer. You’d think he could figure it out. Oh well. Naw, we’re meeting at the cafe so he can help me with my homework. I know, I know - he’s harmless though. I even went over to his house and got drunk and he didn’t try anything. I know! Yeah I know I need to tell him, I just don’t want to hurt his feelings, he’s such a sweet guy*. Maybe after I get married my husband can chase him away. Yeah. Ok, I’ll talk to you later.”
*Girls say this but what they mean is that they aren’t ready to give up the attention you’re giving them.
I know you couched this OP in a more lighthearted fashion and I’m sorry I keep beating a dead horse. (But it smells so good!) Good luck - here’s hoping that I’m completely wrong.
I have to agree with grayhairedmomma here. I’m not sure about the passive-agressive thing but it surely isn’t suitable for her to read.
Hmm. I suppose you could be right. This kind of thinking is so alien to me.
Well, I suppose it could be fun though, again, I just can’t relate to this at all.
That, I cannot believe. It just doesn’t ring true, given what I know of her.
I’m going to “ditto” Stranger here. Best wishes fimy.
A subtle way to talk about this without having to actually talk about it is what you’re looking for here, right? Just wait until an appropriate time in conversation and say in a self-deprecating way “Man, I need a girlfriend.” You know, like after revealing that you watched six straight episodes of Kim Possible last night. The worst that can happen is she just laughs or makes fun of you or something. The best that can happen is she reveals her opinion on the matter, including whether or not she’s involved. Ideally, from what I gather, you want to try to “force” her to tell you something without really pressing because you don’t think the odds are good. This way you give her the chance to say something while leaving both of you clear outs if necessary.
If she doesn’t take the bait, by the way, you could obviously let it drop and no harm done. But if you’re feeling especially testicularly sound, the subject’s already broached – “Seriously, though…” Just don’t try the combination play – drop it, make another coy hint later on when the heat’s died off, drop it again, etc. That’s probably a spectacular way to look like a fucking lunatic and simultaneously make clear your intentions in the worst possible light.
PS – the really best thing to do really would be to just come out with it.
Girl – “What do you want to do this weekend?”
fimy – (points at girl, bares teeth, balls fists, pelvic-thrusts the air)
Been there, done that. Don’t go there, pal! You don’t want this person for a girlfriend because if roles were reversed (between you and her BF), you’ll probably find out she plays these games a lot. It will drive you insane even if you’re not the jealous type. You cannot really win the heart of this kind of girl although she’ll lead you believe (ad infinitum) that you can.
Geez, I hope I’m wrong here because only you know best. But, one thing’s for certain regardless of what she’s like: You’re better off trying to meet other girls to avoid the misery you shall be enduring the closer you two get - whether she ever breaks up with her BF, or not.
By the way, it sounds like you really do like her (deep down) as a pseudo-BF (even if just a pal, for now) although you seem to deny that. - Jinx