Does she like me? Any subtle ways to tell?

[Hostile_Dialect]

@fimy

Has it now? What are you referring to, exactly?

I wouldn’t know. I didn’t say that.

@fimy

She also told me that she was marrying him this summer and invited me to the wedding. It is somewhat of a paper marriage that would allow her bf to move to the u.s (he’s european) and have a work permit. She also told me she was nervous about the idea.

I also know she feel guilty for not loving him like he loves her. She said so on two or 3 occasions.

Having heard this, my only advice to you is to get out NOW while you still can. Apparently she values a false sense of obligation over love. Think about what this means for you. Either:

(a) You sweep her off her feet but she feels such guilt about her other relationship that she ends up marrying him and dumping you;

or (b) Same as above, but she marries him and carries on an affair with you, meaning she’s got two men doting over her while you’re left chasing a carrot you can never have;

or (c) You sweep her off her feet and she drops the other guy for you, and for as long as you’re together you’ll be wondering whether she’s only staying with you out of a perceived obligation and whether she’s seeing anyone else.

Any way you cut that turkey, you’re screwed. Maybe I’m a little biased–last year I ended up in a relationship that had elements of all three, and it left us both with a lot of painful baggage. He was neglecting her badly when we met and sparks flew, and then she dumped me for him and he turned into a super-sweet, sobbing, sensitive gentleman and won her back–now I’m alone and he’s even more of an asshole to her than before, being that much more secure in his ability to keep her under his thumb, so she’s even more miserable, not to mention bitter. I carried a lot of bitterness from that for a good while. It took me a horrible fling with another girl–the only girl (out of six total) who ever failed to make me come during intercourse–to get over her, and that fling left a lot of hurt feelings on the girl’s end because she was way, way more into me than I was into her. I’d seen stereotypical men trying to get out of women’s beds as soon after sex as possible on TV, but I never understood it until I had that rebound fling. It was scary territory–I’d never imagined myself being that dude, and the fact that a rough relationship could turn me into that was a distressing realization.

Long story short, you can wind up seeing a lot of hurt feelings all around with this thing. I’m no expert, but if I were in your shoes–knowing what I learned in my last relationship–I would wait until your lady friend demonstrated a desire to get her emotional priorities straight, and maybe not even get involved then. I don’t want to be with a woman who would marry someone she didn’t love, and in the future I plan to cut and run at the first sign of that. But hormones are powerful. Just watch your ass out there, soldier. And I still agree with Queuing in that you need to either shit or get off the pot.

BTW, are you aware that if the Other Guy was born in Puerto Rico, he’s already a US citizen and doesn’t need to marry her? If she doesn’t know this, that’s a HUGE red flag about the dude’s ethics and the dudette’s gullibility.

[Hostile_Dialect]

Whoops! He’s European. Sorry. Skimmed over that. Please ignore that last part.

[Gozu]

I say just kiss her! If she doesn’t like you, you still get the kiss. You haven’t commented on my “theatre play rehearsal” plan. I still think it’s a great cover for the kiss.

Unless she sees through it. Then it might be very embarassing for you. What about just kissing her without any excuse then? I’m sure there is an unwritten rule for womankind that says that the first kiss is always free. Isn’t that Right gals?

We men have a similar rule, only ours says all kisses from pretty girls are always free, no matter what the circumstances. Unfortunately, the gentler sex has not taken advantage of this rule with the proper levels of enthusiasm and dedication.

PS: And be quick about it. We all want to know what she does so we can comment on that afterwards

[ZipperJJ]

@fimy

Your suggestion certainly has merit. But you make it sound too easy. I have no female friends in this area. I’m supposed to meet a new girl and convince her to hangout with me? And I suppose I’d have to actually enjoy her company or I’d just be manipulating and using her before I start ignoring her when she’s not needed anymore. That sounds like a tough thing to do

Not what I am saying at all. You met this one girl - meet another. You have all of your eggs in one basket. That basket has a big f’n hole in the bottom.

You are not dating this girl. Most notably, because she has another boyfriend to whom she will be married shortly. So basically you have no say in how anything goes - you’re just along for the ride.

So, if she’s your friend and you want to be dating someone, tell your friend. Tell her that you’re lonely and want to meet a nice girl. Hey friend, can you help me?

If she’s your friend she’ll help/support you. If she likes you, she will let you know at this time. If she’s not your friend and is just using you for amusement she will neither help/support you or tell you she likes you - just go bananas and be all jealous and mean at which time it’s time to walk away.

And who knows, you might meet someone better.

[nongoog]

@ZipperJJ

You need to find another chick with which to hang out.

Out with whom to hang?

Meanwhile, I second/third/fourth that this girl is wishy washy and probably not such a good catch. She’s getting MARRIED to him and inviting you over alone with wine? She sounds like an Emotional Cocktease with a capital E.C. I bet she has her own fish to fry- perhaps she only wants to dangle you on a string to convince herself she could get another guy if she wanted. Perhaps she’s lonely and, as someone earlier said, using you as a surrogate boyfriend while hers is down in PR.

Danger, danger! Any chick who mentions “marriage” or “fiancee” as opposed to simply “boyfriend” is not sending genuine come-hither signals. I can’t see this ending well at all. My vote is to disengage (no pun intended).

[fimy]

There, I have tried to answer each of your posts (Took me over an hour and a half…).

@Queuing

To reitarate:

Alcohol + you two alone + a place = booty call at the very worse

You’d think so, wouldn’t you? I agree with your equation. But there is nothing in her body language and her routine actions that indicates she likes me. In my heart of hearts, I don’t think she feels that way about me. Despite the more or less dubious signs out there.

Guy you don’t know + hot smart chick = what guy?

Never disagreed with that.

She wants you, but she won’t for long. Act now or forever hold your peace.

I’m not so sure…

@greasyann

dude,

if this guy is coming to america you have to make your move before then. save him the trip. spare the girl the working up of emotions (who knows, looking forward to eduardo coming could rekindle old feelings for him?)

Since you have missed the signs already, you might not get another chance after this. Just do it tomorrow. It’s obvious she’s hesitant about the marriage. Now is the time. What have you got to lose? What have you got to gain? Just do it! And tells us all how it goes tomorrow.

I don’t know, she seems excited about the trip (showed me pictures of the beach). I get the distinct feeling that declaring myself now would end in failure. I’ll try to find out more tomorrow.

@fetus

Long story short, you can wind up seeing a lot of hurt feelings all around with this thing. I’m no expert, but if I were in your shoes–knowing what I learned in my last relationship–I would wait until your lady friend demonstrated a desire to get her emotional priorities straight, and maybe not even get involved then. I don’t want to be with a woman who would marry someone she didn’t love, and in the future I plan to cut and run at the first sign of that. But hormones are powerful. Just watch your ass out there, soldier. And I still agree with Queuing in that you need to either shit or get off the pot.

Wiser words were seldom spoken. The marriage (according to her) is just a legal fiction to enable him to reside in the U.S indefinitely and obtain a work permit quickly. Nothing morally wrong with that as far as I’m concerned. Of course, marriage is an emootionally loaded concept. I have little doubt that the BF will want to make it into a permanent thing. And it wouldn’t surprise me if part of her was anticipating the wedding. She does love the guy afterall.

I’ll watch my ass as best as I can. Thanks for sharing your story.

I say just kiss her! If she doesn’t like you, you still get the kiss. You haven’t commented on my “theatre play rehearsal” plan. I still think it’s a great cover for the kiss.

Unless she sees through it. Then it might be very embarassing for you. What about just kissing her without any excuse then? I’m sure there is an unwritten rule for womankind that says that the first kiss is always free. Isn’t that Right gals?

We men have a similar rule, only ours says all kisses from pretty girls are always free, no matter what the circumstances. Unfortunately, the gentler sex has not taken advantage of this rule with the proper levels of enthusiasm and dedication.

PS: And be quick about it. We all want to know what she does so we can comment on that afterwards

I get the distinct feeling you don’t so much care about helping me than entertaining yourself. I assure you you’ll be the first to know if I kiss her. As far as your theater play plan, I really can’t see how anything could go wrong with it. Truly, an admirably solid plan.

Or is it?

@ZipperJJ

Not what I am saying at all. You met this one girl - meet another. You have all of your eggs in one basket. That basket has a big f’n hole in the bottom.

You are not dating this girl. Most notably, because she has another boyfriend to whom she will be married shortly. So basically you have no say in how anything goes - you’re just along for the ride.

I couldn’t agree more if I tried (nods vigourously)

So, if she’s your friend and you want to be dating someone, tell your friend. Tell her that you’re lonely and want to meet a nice girl. Hey friend, can you help me? If she’s your friend she’ll help/support you. If she likes you, she will let you know at this time

“I’m lonely and I want to meet a nice girl?”. Doesn’t that sound kindof pathetic? As in lack of self-confidence that is appreciated so little by the gentler sex? Wouldn’t it be better to say something along the lines of “I’m horny. I need some ass. Yo, any of your friends a slut?”.

@nongoog

Meanwhile, I second/third/fourth that this girl is wishy washy and probably not such a good catch. She’s getting MARRIED to him and inviting you over alone with wine? She sounds like an Emotional Cocktease with a capital E.C.

Only if she’s doing it consciously. She might be innocent of any scheming.

perhaps she only wants to dangle you on a string to convince herself she could get another guy if she wanted.

Perhaps. I don’t know her well enough to eliminate the possibility.

Perhaps she’s lonely and, as someone earlier said, using you as a surrogate boyfriend while hers is down in PR.

I don’t know about “using” me. I’m the one who calls 95% of the time so maybe it’s more like she’s letting me behave like a surrogate boyfriend (a sexless one). And he’s in Western Europe, Puerto Rico is just a vacation destination.

Danger, danger! Any chick who mentions “marriage” or “fiancee” as opposed to simply “boyfriend” is not sending genuine come-hither signals. I can’t see this ending well at all.

I’m afraid I must agree with you, though with less certitude due to the setting and context at the time.

My vote is to disengage (no pun intended).

Disengage what? Work on Giving up hope completely? Put her out of my life completely?

Neither of these 2 last option is satisfactory.

And who knows, you might meet someone better.

Anything is possible.

[LouisB]

Did she give you anything for Valentine’s Day?

She has told you she resents the other guy calling her 10+ times per day; she resents that he gives her no space. She has also said she is NOT in love with the guy but that she loves him.
The marriage is supposedly one of convenience so the guy can live and work in the US; she is ambivalent about it even though she invited you to the wedding. I think she was testing your reaction. Unless you told her flat out that you wouldn’t be able to stand seeing her marry another guy, you failed the test.

I think you should press the issue with her; declare yourself and see what happens OR ask her to clarify her position regarding you—tell her you aren’t that good at reading signals and you THINK you are getting mixed messages from her. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line; you need to get the line straight because it is full of wiggles the way it stands.

Whatever, I hope you join up and hang out here; you would be a good contributor to this board.

[John_Carter_of_Mars]

@fimy

… The marriage (according to her) is just a legal fiction to enable him to reside in the U.S indefinitely and obtain a work permit quickly.

Not trying to be abrasive, but if this is truly her feeling on the marriage and she is going through with it, she is, at best, an airhead. Unless, of course, he’s paying her some large amount of money to perform the service.

@LouisB

I think you should press the issue with her; declare yourself and see what happens OR ask her to clarify her position regarding you—tell her you aren’t that good at reading signals and you THINK you are getting mixed messages from her. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line; you need to get the line straight because it is full of wiggles the way it stands.

Bingo! What LouisB said.

[stolichnaya]

First, stop being available every time she calls you.

Second, explore this unusual marriage thing in conversation, as a friend would. Take risks that a friend would. Are you really treating her as a friend, with the frankness that implies? If you really act like a friend she may not like it. Then you’ll have your answer.

Third, it sounds to me like you might not even really like her, it’s just that she’s the only gal you know. You have that normal curiosity of “would she be up for it?” but that is where it ends. Every guy feels like that and most don’t get an answer most of the time.

If you’re really only partially smitten with her, then just take a class, or join a volunteer organization, meet some new people. Once you have your own life, if she likes you, she will make it plain.

[fimy]

@LouisB

Did she give you anything for Valentine’s Day?

She has told you she resents the other guy calling her 10+ times per day; she resents that he gives her no space. She has also said she is NOT in love with the guy but that she loves him.
The marriage is supposedly one of convenience so the guy can live and work in the US; she is ambivalent about it even though she invited you to the wedding. I think she was testing your reaction. Unless you told her flat out that you wouldn’t be able to stand seeing her marry another guy, you failed the test.

I think you should press the issue with her; declare yourself and see what happens OR ask her to clarify her position regarding you—tell her you aren’t that good at reading signals and you THINK you are getting mixed messages from her. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line; you need to get the line straight because it is full of wiggles the way it stands.

Whatever, I hope you join up and hang out here; you would be a good contributor to this board.

She gave me nothing for valentine’s day, or christmas for that matter. She’s making up for it by making a drawing for me.

On pressing the issue and declaring myself, yes, I will inevitably do it. In the meanwhile, I still wish someone would give a good answer to the original question.

Thank you. Why do you think I would be a good contributor to this board?

@stolichnaya

First, stop being available every time she calls you.

Second, explore this unusual marriage thing in conversation, as a friend would. Take risks that a friend would. Are you really treating her as a friend, with the frankness that implies? If you really act like a friend she may not like it. Then you’ll have your answer.

Third, it sounds to me like you might not even really like her, it’s just that she’s the only gal you know. You have that normal curiosity of “would she be up for it?” but that is where it ends. Every guy feels like that and most don’t get an answer most of the time.

If you’re really only partially smitten with her, then just take a class, or join a volunteer organization, meet some new people. Once you have your own life, if she likes you, she will make it plain.

1. She never calls me.

2. When she first told me about it, I did inform her about the potential problems with what she was doing. I have first-hand experience with it too. However, once she knows how I feel about her, she might construe my previous advice as a self-serving act on my part.

3. I definitely like her. I look for the same things in friends and girlfriends. My only added criteria are that girlfriends must be of the female sex and must attract me.

Good advice, no matter my level of smittenness with her. I want to follow it. Maybe join the theater club at my college.

[stolichnaya]

I guess that came off harsher than I intended- but the message is there… Simply, you don’t want to create a replica of a relationship from your side when none is there for her. Occasionally you should be too busy doing other things to spend time with her. Otherwise she will not get in the mode of wanting you, or seeing you as desired.

It’s game-ey but it’s true- people want to think of their romantic partners as socially desireable- occasionally being too busy to chat or drop by at a moment’s notice sends that signal. You get more going on, you’ll be more attractive to her, and also to that cute bartender in your woodworking class.

Dig?

[grayhairedmomma]

@fimy

1. She never calls me.

2. … I have first-hand experience with it too. However, once she knows how I feel about her,…

You’re not going to listen but I’m going to say it anyway…

She is not interested and she already knows how you feel about her. When she invited herself over she was probably just horny and figured that since you’re into her she could get laid. She didn’t jump your bones because she probably thought she was being forward enough already.

All you are to her is a “dick-in-a-box”*. If you had fucked her that night and rocked her world then not called her, you might have gotten her to rethink your relationship.

Sorry if this sounds really harsh or unfeeling. It just seems like a lot of people are blowing smoke up your butt about this.

*coined by a comedian who’s name I can’t remember.

[stolichnaya]

*coined by a comedian who’s name I can’t remember.

“dick in a glass case”

From the source of many "who said that anyway"s, Chris Rock.

[Lush_Puppy]

@fimy

She never calls me.

And we have an answer. She doesn’t like you, bud. Move on.

[fimy]

@stolichnaya

I guess that came off harsher than I intended- but the message is there… Simply, you don’t want to create a replica of a relationship from your side when none is there for her. Occasionally you should be too busy doing other things to spend time with her. Otherwise she will not get in the mode of wanting you, or seeing you as desired.

It’s game-ey but it’s true- people want to think of their romantic partners as socially desireable- occasionally being too busy to chat or drop by at a moment’s notice sends that signal. You get more going on, you’ll be more attractive to her, and also to that cute bartender in your woodworking class.

Dig?

Agreed. That is indeed human nature.

@greyhairedmomma

You’re not going to listen but I’m going to say it anyway…

She is not interested and she already knows how you feel about her. When she invited herself over she was probably just horny and figured that since you’re into her she could get laid. She didn’t jump your bones because she probably thought she was being forward enough already.

All you are to her is a “dick-in-a-box”*. If you had fucked her that night and rocked her world then not called her, you might have gotten her to rethink your relationship.

Sorry if this sounds really harsh or unfeeling. It just seems like a lot of people are blowing smoke up your butt about this.

Why wouldn’t I listen? Your theory is very believable. Well, except for the fact she could get a fitter guy anytime for sex. And the fact that I didn’t notice any signals pointing in that direction.

I am not sure why people keep “breaking the bad news” or apologizing for their bluntness to me. I already think she doesn’t like me. In fact, I’m already almost certain she doesn’t.

@Lush Puppy

And we have an answer. She doesn’t like you, bud. Move on.

I came to the same conclusion. Only I’m still not 100% certain.

Ah, the last 3 times we’ve seen each other, she mentionned her trip to puertorico, completely out of the blue as far as I can tell. Not her BF, just puertorico. I gave her a red bikini and she was very pleased ( I believe she thanked me 6 or 7 times in all). Later, she mentionned that her BF got mad when she told him about it, saying that it was one step away from lingerie. Then she corrected herself, saying that her boyfriend never gets mad, he cries instead.

Ah, also. She says she’s bisexual. I’m not sure that’s relevant though.

[stolichnaya]

I think I know what’s going on here.

She’s insane.

[Queuing]

Just wondering, when you gave her the red bikini did she model it for you?

If so, then you could still get laid, but probably not a real relationship.

If not, then she thinks your gay/ugly/just a friend (they all mean the same)

[tdn]

Alright, I’ve got a few for you. Analyse them all you want. This concerns a theoretical coworker. In Pretend World. For instance.

1. During meetings, she never makes any effort to sit next to me. Except during one, she sat really close – and practically on my hand. I could almost feel her butt fabric.

2. I once had her do me a work-related favor. When she was done, I said “Thanks! You’re the best!” At this she lowered her chin, turned red, smiled her cute smile, and said “No, you are.”

3. During one holiday outing, when I left, she gave me a goodbye hug, as did all of the other women. Except this one – I think – tried to plant one on my lips. She missed by a mile, as I was going for her cheek. It was rather comical. In subsequent outings, getting a hug from her was a bit of a chore, and not all that satisfying.

4. When I told her that I’d split with my GF, she was friendly, empathetic, and supportive. She gave no hint whatsoever, that I could tell, that she would ever be more than a coworker.

5. Whenever I interact with her, then say “bye” or “thanks” or whatever, she always kind of squints when she smiles.

6. She has never done a hair flip.

7. When she did numbers 2 and 3, she was still married.

So – should I build a little house in the country for the two of us, or should I resign myself to a meager life of tequila and hookers?

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@stolichnaya

I think I know what’s going on here.

She’s insane.

I was thinking more in terms of Gare Montparnasse but it pretty much adds up to the same thing. Take a cab instead.

Stranger

[grayhairedmomma]

@fimy

Why wouldn’t I listen? Your theory is very believable. Well, except for the fact she could get a fitter guy anytime for sex.

But she could control you. She already is in a way. She doesn’t have to do a thing and you’re falling all over her and buying her inappropriate gifts. (Yes the red bikini was inappropriate.)

@fimy

Ah, the last 3 times we’ve seen each other, she mentionned her trip to puertorico, completely out of the blue as far as I can tell. Not her BF, just puertorico. I gave her a red bikini and she was very pleased ( I believe she thanked me 6 or 7 times in all).

I knew you wouldn’t listen - you’re still trying to find hope where there is none.

You’re setting yourself to be a Nice Guy* (if you haven’t yet become one). Here you are doing all these things for someone who CLEARLY doesn’t want it from you. MEANWHILE, every day you probably walk by two or three women who would reciprocate attention and affection to you.

STOP WASTING YOUR TIME.
This advice is given without rancor - just impatience. You seem like you have a good head on your shoulders, you’ve just for some reason gotten really entranced by this girl. Break it off before you get stuck being a “friend” to her and stuck listening to all her complaints about her new husband and becoming very bitter because you would have treated her so much better.
**My searching skills suck. Some lovely doper will, I’m sure, be kind enough to provide a link to that delightful thread which described a Nice Guy so well. *