No, it doesn’t bother me. MLB baseball is distinguished from minor-league baseball (which is on TV here sometimes as we have a AAA team), college baseball, etc. “MLB” describes the governing organization, not the game.
Same with the others: NBA basketball is distinguished from college basketball, NBDL basketball, etc. NFL football is distinguished from college football, Arena League Football, etc.
“ATM machine” and “PIN number” can get grating, but I think “ATM” and “PIN” have both been around long enough that they’ve become their own separate morphemes in the common vocabulary. Think of “ATM” as a modifier instead of a series of intials.
He’s complaining about the redundancy, unless I’ve totally missed the point of the thread. “Major league baseball” is distinct from minor league baseball, etc.
Yes, you have it pretty much correct…I just want to clarify that it is the “baseball” or “football” or "baseball"that I have an issue with. Why repeat the sport’s name?
I am in no way arguing with jackelope, but these terms do stand for what you said, “Major League Baseball” and “National Basketball Association,” etc.
I just do not see how the terms could be confused in this way. Even if the terms could refer to some minor league-AA-or AAA- teams, they nevertheless have the term “Basketball” or Football" or “Baseball” in the letters.
But they don’t say that, do they? They say “MLB Baseball”. Can you cite an example where they actually wrote “Major League Baseball Baseball”? “In effect” is not the same as actually saying something.
Again, you’re mistaken. NFL Football is saying “NFL football.” And I have seen “National Football League Football” written out to distinguish it from “American Football League football” (not in a log time, but certainly correct in the 60s).
Anyone who is bothered by things like this is just overly anal and clueless about language (in addition, they’re not paying the slightest bit of attention to what they’re criticizing).
The “redundant” (and please explain what wrong with language being redundant – that’s a basic quality of all languages) word clarifies what the acronym means.
For instance:
I lose my PIN. Now I can’t do my sewing.
I follow the NBA regularly, and was especially excited when W. S. Merwin won for poetry. NBA basketball is just fine, but not until after the National Book Awards are given out.
I have to check the ABS to answer my questions about cultivating bamboo.
Frankly, being bothered by this is your problem, not due to anything wrong with the usage.
I think jackelope hit the accurate explanation: common acronyms become morphemes in their own right, which can then be used in ways which appear to be redundant. “MLB” refers to “the organizational unity of the National and American Leagues of Professional Baseball Clubs” as distinguished from the minor leagues. Hence one can have MLB rules, MLB umpires, etc. – and what they govern, play, etc. is “MLB baseball” as opposed to “minor league baseball” or “Little League kids’ baseball.” If one assumes “MLB” to be purely an acronym, a redundancy is created – but if one sees “MLB” as a morpheme in its own right, it stands as a modifier which can draw a useful distinction.
Likewise “NBA basketball” distinguishes the professional sport from “NCAA basketball” – which is played in “NCAA colleges,” sort of another redundancy.
It is quite possible to see on a Saturday “NCAA football” and “Arena Football”, then on Sunday “Arena Football” and “NFL Football” on the television listings (not to mention seeing “Futbol” on the ol’ Telemundo). NFL means “the teams comprised of pro players, who play on a 100 yard field” as opposed to “the teams comprised of student athletes, who play on a 100 yard field” or “the teams comprised of pro players, who play on a 50 yard field with walls” (or, once again “the football that has net goals and a round ball.”). Acronym-as-origin be damned.
I agree with you in the case of MLB Baseball. I don’t recall ever seeing “MLB Baseball” anywhere, but if I did, it would bother me.
The others, I don’t think you have a leg to stand on. In “NBA Basketball” (or “NFL Football” or etc.) the first “Basketball” is functioning as an adjective: it’s identifying the association (or league or whetever), and then the whole “NBA” is modifying the second “Basketball.” What are we watching? Basketball. What kind of basketball? NBA Basketball.
Actually, I think that the title of an event should, on the contrary, be a description. If it’s the once-yearly meeting of shellfish enthusiasts in the British Isles, I expect it to be called the Annual British Shellfish Fanciers Fair. I see no reason why less stringent titling standards should be applied to large-scale sporting events, especially when it only serves to underline the Americo-centric viewpoint of many people.
I came here to say that “NBA basketball” differentiates from college basketball, NBDL basketball, etc. Looks like I was beaten to the punch, but here’s a show of solidarity.
I too, though, would be a little bothered by “MLB baseball” because it just doesn’t sound right. But I’ve never seen that in a listing.
Not really. There are many colleges which do not field NCAA teams. Many universities play in the NAIA and two-year colleges aren’t invited to the Dance.
