One of our local Congressmen, Anthony Weiner, received an envelope containing a threatening letter and some white powder. He also received a letter at his office with threats, and a swastika.
No offense young man, but wtf are you talking about?
a) two wrongs never make a right. I guess your mom never taught you that?
b) the Dems controlled Congress since 2006; surely you don’t refer to any programs past then
c) which programs pre-2006 were rammed in this manner (deem and pass plus NO dem votes plus NO dem amendments/compromises)?
From a moderate’s perspective, I saw W trying to work with the Dems to pass Med Part D (or take the issue away from them). What did it get him, besides sniping from his own party and the Hannity’s of the world? I saw plenty of Dem votes for OEF and OIF, including HRC and Kerry, no unified opposition there.
So, since you’re making the accusation, child, tell me which things were rammed through in the same manner as healthcare? Hopefully they are things that also affected 1/6 of the economy, or a similar scale…
Say, long as you’ve got so much time on your hands, can you get back to telling us about that story about Dems burning a black church to blame the Republicans? What happened, you look it up and find out it was a steaming load? And now you want to pretend you never said it?
Tho after I viewed it, I noticed the mashup maker didn’t allude to the various attempts to paint the figurative moustache on Obama, but only to the teabaggers=fascists meme. Still had me ROTF anyway.
First off, this was not “rammed through” against the wishes of the people.
Apparently, there is a growing fissure in the GOP about this … Not all “the faithful” are “faithful enough” or hardline enough apparently.
As for “deem and pass”, according to this site/cite, deem and pass apparently is ONLY bad when the OTHER guys do it…
Further, according to Fox,
So, there is no “concerted conspiracy among the Dems.
And, again, there have been Deem And Pass instances before
Under Article I, section 5 of the Constitution, the House can determine its own rules for passing legislation. There are plenty of precedents for passing legislation by reference through a special rule.
And, Kolga has a good question for you:
Finally, I am not a child by any stretch of the imagination.
I apologize. I wasn’t saying that all older people are Tea Partiers. I was saying that all Tea Partiers (or at least, most of them) are older people. I know a lot of Boomers who are quite liberal and I try to go out of my way to get to know them, because it makes me feel better to know that not everyone over 60 has gone off the deep end. I’m a Gen Xer and we’re very cynical, you know.
Deem and pass was discussed, but not used. (Reconciliation was used.) And if there was no compromise, what happened to the public option? And what was all that bowing and scraping just to get a single vote from Olympia Snowe last year? I mean, you’re correct Obama would have gotten more Republican votes if he’d proclaimed “we’re going to reform health care by cutting taxes!” but realistically…
You’re generally correct that Bush worked with the Democrats when they controlled Congress in the early part of his term, including the post-September 11 period when nobody would stand up to him for any reason. After the GOP took power in the 2002 midterms, though, he had no need for the Democrats. After they regained Congress in 2006, practically nothing got done.
(The second bill was the one passed by reconciliation. That would have happened even if it had been voted on together with the main bill, via deem and pass, instead of separately).
Yes deem and pass has been used by both sides. So has reconciliation. But never something this massive or with this much affect on americans, for generations to come (both the way healthcare gets delivered and the impact to our fiscal health).
Lack of bipartisanship means no Republicans voted for it. At least that’s what a Republican would think.
You say it wasn’t rammed through. From your perspective, I’m sure you believe that. But put yourself in the shoes of the other side; they just saw a bill this massive and this many repurcussions go through with zero bipartisan support. Almost every legislative trick in the book was used to squeak it through, which was necessary after that very conservative state Massachussets went ahead and elected a Republican who pretty much ran a single issue campaign of stopping it.
The CNN poll you cite I think is mostly due to the emotional burst it got post-passage - there’s another thread on that somewhere.
I would agree with you if Snowe had voted for the bill. But she didn’t nor did any of her moderate GOP buddies.
But you didn’t address the Medicare Part D situation I brought up, which I think is instructive here. I would have liked to see Obama do something like that - fix the important stuff, like eliminating lifetime caps, pre-existing conditions, and create interstate exchanges. But include some good GOP ideas like tort reform to eliminate the current crapshoot system we have, medical savings accounts, etc. That’s the way you do life-changing legislation.
By doing it this way, all he’s done is ensure the pendulum willl swing wildly over the next few election cycles, and Americans will be more bitterly divided than ever. It’s good if you’re an extremist I guess (and there are more than a few of them on the SDMB, on both sides). But bad if you want good government. It’s stuff like this that create situations that enable the OP.
Link to hysterical thread involving lanmowers