Uh, okay.:rolleyes:
Why didn’t she run, while he stayed at home and supported her? Why did she wait her turn like a good little wife?
I guess we’re not really disagreeing too, too much, then. Perhaps just debating the degree to which sexism played a part. I probably believe it was a bigger factor than others do, but I can’t really prove it beyond what evidence I’ve already provided.
In any case, my point was not that sexism is the only reason why Hillary lost the race in 2016, and I would never say that Hillary wasn’t at times her own worst enemy. She made bad voting decisions and bad decisions as Sec of State. I think the Democratic party would have been wiser to have cultivated a broader field of candidates. Not disagreeing with any of that and have said as much in other threads.
But Hillary’s political reputation has been bludgeoned by chauvinistic conspiracy theorists who saw her candidacy for president coming miles away and resolved to do whatever they could to make sure that she never set foot in the White House. It started out as mostly a right wing cabal of people who hated her for being a modern woman, for being pro-choice, for trying to lead efforts to reform a corrupt healthcare system. The attacks started out from the fringes of the right, but was then flanked from fringes on the left as well.
People who believe that Joe Biden was a better champion for the people than Hillary yet can’t explain the difference between his vote for Glass Steagal repeal, his vote for the Patriot Act, and his vote for the Iraq War – and hers. They can’t explain why it’s okay for Hillary Clinton’s opponents like Barack Obama, John Edwards, and Joe Biden to be awash in millions in campaign cash but suddenly she’s a Wall Street sellout when she actually beats many of them at their own game.
And then the Bernie Bros can’t explain why it’s so racist and awful for Hillary Clinton to have supported her husband’s mass incarceration in 1994, when it fact it was none other than Senator Bernie Sanders who helped to vote it into law. That’s not to say that there aren’t differences between the candidates – there are, and I’d acknowledge that in terms of message, say what one will, Bernie Sanders did set himself apart in the 2016 campaign. I’m not so much pro-Hillary as I am pro-truth and pro-fairness.
Maybe you don’t know what charismatic means and that’s why you’re so confused? The fact that someone would seriously think that charisma has something to do with voting records is just baffling. Charisma is about showing confidence, exuberance, optimism, a ready smile, expressive body language, and a friendly, passionate voice - and other that confidence Hillary Clinton absolutely doesn’t present those qualities.
Here’s a person with enough charisma to become president on a show:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnW3xkHxIEQ
Here’s the person who couldn’t beat Donald Fucking Trump on the same show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrkPe-9rM1Q
But yeah, clearly if anyone thinks she lacks charisma it’s solely due to vagina possession and not due to, you know, her showing the likability and public speaking ability of a piece of cardboard with a face drawn on it.
Hillary Clinton is not a progressive politician, moderate or not. She is generally right-wing outside of health care, an extreme hawk on military matters, and doesn’t support progressive social causes until they’re safely centrist causes - gay marriage being the prime example.
At least hit upside the head too many times, anyway. 
In fairness, she didn’t seem to know ‘what borders are’ or ‘why we have borders’.
You’re off yer chain, mate.
Hell if I know. Bill won his first elective office in 1976, the year after they married. She may not have had any political ambitions by that point.
Just for the record, I’ve never been the least bit interested in knowing your point of view on anything.
Nah, she’s likely always had political ambitions. She waited until she thought it was ‘safe’ to run. Like any good competitor, she waited until she felt like the odds were most likely to be in her favor. She wasn’t going to win political office in Deep South Arkansas in the 1970s having arrived as an assertive female northern transplant.
After her husband won two terms as president and after she thought she had established herself as a credible political candidate, she ran, and she won in New York. And in late 2007 all indications were, she was a good bet to return to the White House in January of 2009. But higher office means higher scrutiny and the dynamics had also changed in ways she wasn’t yet aware of – ditto 2016
The original deal was that Bill would get elected President, because he has/had the charisma, and she was the policy wonk who would fix healthcare. (Some Congressman who I think was named Wofford or similar won a special election running mostly on healthcare, so the Clintons figured that was a winning issue).
Then Bill won the White House and the Dems controlled Congress, both houses. And Hillary was going to be co-President In Charge of Healthcare. Unfortunately, Bill’s apparent inability to tell the truth on a dare, and the discovery that the kind of petty graft that was taken for granted as a perk of office in Arkansas was not going to be overlooked in DC, led to the GOP takeover of Congress. And Hillary found out that the “I can’t be expected to save every under-capitalized entrepreneur in America” so shut up and accept the plans of your betters did not play in Peoria.
Then Bill’s zipper problems erupted (so to speak). Bill and Hillary had the sort of agreement that some political couples have - cat around if you must, but keep it on the down low and don’t get caught. And Bill got caught. Hillary was majorly pissed, and she and Bill came to a new arrangement. Hillary would do the Tammy Wynette bit and stand by her man, fade into the background and let Bill schmooze his way out. But by golly after he left the White House, it was her turn.
So our long national nightmare was over in 2001. First order of business - make a lot of money, because they had to spend so much on lawyers and paying off the women Bill had attempted to schtup. So Bill went on the speaking tour and they made a hundred million or so lecturing the Nigerians (only a hundred million - not real money). Then Hillary ran for a nice safe Democratic seat - she’s a big Yankees fan, after all, served in the Senate, and then decided it was time for POTUS. Unfortunately the Dems and the country found Obama’s black privilege points outweighed Hillary’s feminist points, and she lost to a newbie. OK, time to regroup. Eventually she got Obama to appoint her SoS to get foreign policy chops.
So along comes 2016, and at last she is sure that this time, she is going to be everybody’s first choice for President. Only not so much, and not where it counted.
Or maybe thinking she’s got the charisma of a used Kleenex is sexism. Who can tell.
Regards,
Shodan
Free spirit? No, she is a fucking moron who should have never had a shot at ANY office. Her “soulmates” are fucking morons too.
Please remind me of Bill Clinton’s “petty graft.”
Not helping what, exactly? Maybe finally getting pissed off is the right thing for a change? We already saw how far “concensus building” got (the Party Of No killed that right off). We’re tired of traitors calling US the traitors. We’re tired of philanderers and fake preachers and multiply divorced criminals telling us what the “word of God” is. We’re tired of the whole shit sandwich.
So fuck helping, it’s time to get ignorant and start fighting back.
Fuck the radicalized right. They like to wave their guns, talk about second amendment solutions to everything, making vague threats about civil war. We’ve got the Proud Boys, the alt-right, all the other loonies, and WE are supposed to make nice? Aw fuck that.
This perhaps is the most bizarre thing I’ve seen Clinton faulted for. Not only are you presuming that there was a household competition between them for president and that she lost, you’re saying this silly “loss” makes her a questionable candidate… decades after it happened.
How about she simply decided to support her husband’s political ambitions and be there for her daughter, putting a temporary hold on her own aspirations so that Bill could succeed first? I hope you don’t think this is a bad thing, because good god, that would just confirm the idea Hillary just can’t win with some of yall.
When it’s a Clinton, especially Hillary, everything is a bad thing, no matter which way you go. There IS no right thing.
Perhaps because Bill, like many men, would’ve treated that idea as emasculating nonsense? I mean, are you being serious with this question? SAHDs were a pretty alien concept in the 80’s and 90’s, particular among men with law degrees and presidential aspirations. You know what was also a pretty alien concept? Presidents without Y-chromosomes and pale skin.
Are you really faulting HRC for being a “good little wife” for delaying her entry into political office so that she put full support behind her husband? Because if so, you’re crapping on a bunch of women who have been pressured to do the same thing for their husbands. I guess all of them are opportunistic, coat-tail riding poseurs too, huh?
I don’t know if Bill would’ve - Hillary used to go by her maiden name and was known as Hillary Rodham, but the voters of Arkansas didn’t like it.
Because Bill was the charmer and she was the policy wonk. They had the best chance of doing what they wanted to do under that arrangement. The “Bill becomes POTUS” part worked; the “Hillary puts her brilliant ideas into law and fixes all the problems with healthcare” less so.
The new arrangement where “Hillary becomes POTUS and puts her brilliant ideas into law” even less.
Regards,
Shodan
I am not sure why you say that. Both the Left and the Right voted for her in very large numbers. Asshole was “elected” by a fucked-up bloc of μολον-λαβeist types, apolitical morons, nihilists and dizzy revolutionaries.
The fact that a large number of Hillary voters were not literally Hillary supporters does not alter the fact that they did vote for her, or at least against Trainwreck. How is it stupid to be disappointed by one’s disappointment?
That’s cute, but it’s a safe bet that he wouldn’t have. All indications suggest Bill Clinton craved the limelight too much to stand in anyone’s shadow, left alone his wife’s. Like most high-achieving men have historically done. Her using her maiden name doesn’t negate that.
Do you think HRC coerced him to run for president or something? Because otherwise I don’t know where the doubt comes from. I assume they both came to decision that he’d pursue national political office and she’d do what was necessary to help him accomplish that.