I have to agree: post #499 is just adaher expounding on his theory of what a president should be like and how Obama falls short of that fantasy. He goes on to further fantasize that Trump does not fall short of his fantasy. Then he fantasizes about more ways that Trump excels over Obama and lastly he lumps Clinton in with Obama.
:rolleyes:
The fact that a President is accountable for everything that happens in the executive branch isn’t some fantasy. It’s a) the law, b) the way the media sees it, c) the way the President sees it as a general concept(to be abandoned when specific things go wrong), and d) anyone who isn’t an avid support of a President sees it.
The President is accountable for the executive branch. Period. End of argument.
If you think this President has offered less accountability than other Presidents, then demonstrate it. Show us, in detail, how often he has avoided responsibility as compared to other Presidents. Otherwise, this is just fantasy bullshit derived from your personal dislike of the man, like so much else.
You wrote a whole post that refuted nothing; congratulations on the effort.
This is an irrelevant metric. The fact is, the President is accountable for everything that happens in his branch, and that ignorance is not an excuse. In any organization, much less the Presidency. Trump’s comeback was fitting. I don’t think Obama is the worst President ever, probably not even the worst in this one regard(Reagan was famous for not knowing dick about what was going on), but the general comeback is a fairly solid burn. Obama criticized the mote in Trump’s eye while ignoring the plank in his own. If you were to ask Barack Obama today, how are things going in the VA, what kind of answer do you think you would get?
Do you think a single intelligent person believes Trump would have a handle on the ins and outs of the VA bureaucracy in a million years? The guy couldn’t follow through on a condo conversion. Ignorance of the inner workings of a massive bureaucracy that Obama inherited 7 years ago is a somewhat valid criticism but comparing it to the very basic ignorance that Trump exudes is ridiculous. It’s blatantly obvious Trump will own both styles of ignorance if he takes the Presidency.
That’s probably true. Clinton probably will do better on this because of her good relations with military and ex-military officials. Plus her and her husband have always shown more interest in the small details of government than most so-called leaders.
However, the argument here isn’t about Trump’s competence, it’s about the validity of Trump’s return-fire on the President. A President who has relied on ignorance to escape accountability should not be throwing stones at Donald Trump.
I seriously doubt many Trump supporters jumped through the intellectual hoops you did to make it a good “burn”. If it worked at all it was a case of “yeah I hate ISIS/whatever and Obama doesn’t bomb them! He’s an idiot!”
Well, he was talking about ignorance, so that’s got to be what he was referring to. But it is Trump, so who knows?
So you’ve still got nothing but your own feelings. Got it.
He’ll tell you about it when he picks up a newspaper.
Yes, there has occurred times when the President or his team has said that he didn’t know about something.
Is that your point? That, at times in his two terms so far, President Obama has admitted that he wasn’t aware of every fact all the time for everything that has ever gone wrong while he’s been in office?
If so, would you like to expound about the color of the sky? Or the orangeness of Mr. Trump?
I thought you were making some sort of political point, not making submissions to Obvious Things Magazine.
The point is that he wasn’t ashamed that he found out from the media instead of through government channels. He was unbothered by his ignorance. He was always willing to express anger that these things had happened, but never really expressed any anger that he wasn’t informed, that the system had broken down, causing whistleblowers to have to go to the media. The fact that most people didn’t believe him(including Jon Stewart, who burned him nice and hard), isn’t relevant to Trump’s tweet, but is nice to point out.
Ahh, mind-reading! adaher knows when the President feels shame and when he does not. The special powers of conservative Dopers continue to delight and amaze…
Got it – feelings, Obvious Things, and mind-reading. Or maybe just empathy, like you’re half-Betazoid – you know he wasn’t ashamed, but you don’t necessarily know everything that he’s thinking. So, not quite so far-fetched.
He felt the need to express anger at the scandals. He did not express anger at the fact that he found out about them in the media. I’m not mindreading by assuming he doesn’t care, you’re mindreading in assuming he does.
You’ve been in the military. What would have happened to any officer who claimed that they found out what was going on in their battalion or company from the media? We don’t know, because no officer would ever say that! In any other walk of life besides politics, there is nothing more damning you can say than that. He would have been better off to say he’d done it on purpose than to claim ignorance.
Cite about the anger (and lack of anger) he expressed? Was this more mind-reading, or perhaps body-language expert reading?
Where does adaher get his information on the emotional state of public figures?
It’s not remotely comparable – being President probably isn’t remotely comparable to any other job… nothing else is close to as big. Anything at the battalion level, compared to these scandals, is like the Commanding Officer knowing about the cleanliness of every single soldier’s toenails.
Luckily for this hypothetical CO, soldier toenail stories don’t make the news.
Could you link to a public statement where it was obvious that Obama was blasé about learning of a scandal from the media? I am trying to figure out where you are coming from here.
You still haven’t shown this to be the case. You’ve not shown one instance where Obama said something like “not my fault, can’t hold me responsible, I didn’t know it was happening”. You’ve made the claim that he’s done so, but when pressed, you come up with zero instances of this happening.
Now, you may have pointed out half a dozen things that have happened over the last 7 years that he didn’t know about before the general public did, but you’ve not established that he’s somehow culpable in the first place (except in a very general sense since he is POTUS) nor that he’s somehow “escaped accountability” for anything.
As I learned in another thread, tho, the point you’re trying to make is that your point is essentially cherry-picked bullshit and you continue to do a terrific job of spreading that around.
On a side note: another poll shows Trump leading Clinton.
Her dwindling lead in the RCP average is now down to 3.9
I know that polls don’t mean a lot at this stage of the campaign, but that’s got to give at least some Democrats pause, considering that Bernie Sanders has been performing better than Clinton against Trump in most recent polls.