That’s too many for me, I fold.
That was then, today its Geraldo Rivera. * Sick transit Gloria Monday*
He was only suspended for one week. Much like an excessive-celebration penalty in football, calling for an assassination is only a minor offense.
Of course our aggressive military enemies like Putin and Kim Jong-un want the nincompoop to be President. But what do they hope to gain by endorsing him publicly? Do they expect some wavering Americans to think “Well, I wasn’t sure how to vote but if Kim Jong-un likes Trump, that’s good enough for me!”
Women do not dress in a way to purposely incite rape and beatings. They’re also not exercising a right to be women. There is a world of difference between that and walking into a mob which yes, may not be able to control themselves. As individuals they are just fine, in a group people become animals. You really can’t blame them for their lack of control. This is how mobs work. It has always been so and this event isn’t going to change it.
If you deliberately incite a mob then you get what you deserve. Unfortunately innocent people are going to get what you deserve too. That’s really the point. I don’t see political affiliations being hurt others worthy. Some do. This man could not stand that the world did not know that he was going to vote for Trump in 5 months and no matter the cost, he had to express that right at that second, for some reason no matter the consequences.
How would his right to free speech be hurt by him making the exact same speech at another time? If the answer is it wouldn’t then the mans actions were wretched. If you say it would have, then how on earth would it have? Were you sitting around anxiously waiting to see who this guy was voting for in 5 months? Was anyone and again, if so why?
I’m not saying that society should condone mob violence. I’ve got no problem arresting those who commit violence. I am saying that I do condemn those who needlessly incite violence. In a case like this I have far more sympathy for the mob than it’s manipulator so at least to me, this mans stunt failed miserably.
Now, you show me a case for example where an anti Trump protester cold cocks a man then I’ll condemn him. So far, that has been exclusively a Trump supporter tactic at least in this election cycle. I’m not sure that I should be surprised that those who would resort to a tactic like this would be the first to condemn it. No, I’m sure that I shouldn’t be surprised at all.
I reject the notion that groups of people cannot control themselves. I also reject the condoning of violence directed at unpopular opinions just because the violence is perpetuated by a group. You really don’t comprehend that being an apologist for the Heckler’s Veto is contrary to the classical liberal ideals that were instrumental to the founding of the US. And your argument and the behavior of this particular mob closely parallels arguments used to justify violence and the violence itself, sexual and otherwise, directed against women who dare to dress as they wish.
But no, the blame is on the man wearing a hat.:smack: How’d you be arguing if random mobs were assaulting people wearing Obama hats? How’d you feel if armed men decide to be instigated during the election? I have a feeling you’d be arguing for the expression of fundamental rights and attacking those who were violent get preventing them.
The feelings of emotionally undeveloped groups shouldn’t be a factor with regards to liberty.
The man isn’t even a President (yet) and the North Koreans already groveling at his feet?
This is on top of President Putin (whose Foreigh Secretary made a habit of repeatedly bitchslapping Secretary Clinton while she was in the office) rushing to ingratiate himself with Trump, and President of Mexico issuing an apology to Donald?
Wow, just wow…
He’s responsible for a few scraped knees and sore jaws on this board, too. Never been into bossy blondes, myself, but I guess the heart wants what it wants…
Post #726 answers that question for you quite nicely.
No, the problem is that you continue to insist you know what I’m thinking then proceed to argue against it. Have I ever claimed to be a classic liberal? I really also could’t care less what notions you reject. You can reject the notion that water is wet; it doesn’t affect the nature of water one bit. It really doesn’t. It just shows where you stand in regards to reality.
Now, a random mob is one thing. A mob that you can see and easily avoid and still retain your rights is another matter. I certainly would not be any more concerned about this instance if the man was wearing an Obama hat though I’d be concerned that he was still living in 2008 and even worse, that it would still incite violence in 2016. I simply do not run my every thought through a political lense. Your mileage may vary.
I would condemn the armed instigated ( assuming they are the crowd, I don’t really know ) for their actions; I have done so in this case. I’d still hold the person who instigated them in worse light. Why? I’m not a partisan and I disapprove of those who would put others needlessly at risk for partisan reasons, a point you have never addressed btw. Can I assume we are in agreement here? Should someone put others needlessly in danger to back a principal not under attack? This isn’t an exercise; it’s the choice that man made. If the answer is yes, then we aren’t going to come to an agreement. You hold life in too little regard for me.
Now, if this so called armed instigated actually followed the guy around and actually preventing his free speech not his right to practice it 24/7 then yes, I’d hold him to no fault at all. That’s just simply not the case.
Alas, you face a combination of acute insight, stunning intelligence and rhetorical brilliance. I have retired from the lists, bruised and battered. Most posters are confined and cramped by rebutting things actually said, his imagination is unhindered, and soars above such mundane restrictions. Mere facts are useless, like hunting Tyrannosaurus with a Nerf bat.
“No, 'tis not so derp as a well nor so wise as a church-door, but 'tis enough, 'twill serve.”
Major golf tournament to move from Trump Doral in Miami to Mexico. Trump is really hurting his brand name in business. I wonder if they’ll actually rebrand under another name after this election?
Remember the money Trump raised for veterans? He’s been sitting on it.
Four months and he hadn’t sent the money? Was he hoping it was forgotten?
He claimed months ago he had already written a personal check for a million and had donated it yet he produced the newly written check at the press conference.
I saw something last week that said something similar about impacts to the Trump brand. I wonder how bad something like that would have to get before someone whose entire business is branding would take some action. I have no idea what action would even make sense, though.
I understand what you are saying it’s just that where does one draw the line between the instigator deserved it because he’s in hostile territory vs. the mob is in the wrong for persecuting him? Does a sports fan wearing a jersey of a rival deserve a beating for instigating the home crowd? Does a Jew deserve a beating for wearing orthodox clothing near a mosque?
I say no. So called humans need to restrain their emotions or go to jail.
I wonder if he was getting interest on the $4.6M that others donated.
Both the mob and the man are wrong. I don’t believe either should go to jail in this scenario though. If the police on scene did not see fit to arrest them then I who have only seen this on a video have no compelling reason to doubt them. I never saw the man being punched or kicked. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt on that for this discussion. He’d get no such luxury in a criminal matter.
I don’t see this as an either or scenario. It could have been avoided by both sides but far more easily avoidable by the man. The mob would have to fight basic human nature, the man not so much. At least I hope that inciting others to violence isn’t basic human nature. Sometimes I wonder.
I’m not sure why you keep wanting to associate this man with a protected class. Political supporter isn’t a protected class. The examples aren’t comperable really. It’s also not even a first amendment rights issue as no government tried to suppress his free speach. It’s merely about working up a hostile crowd and the responsibility you would deserve for doing so.
Let’s take the free speech debate to a new thread, guys. It’s a worthy debate but it’s not THIS debate.
I doubt if Trump leaves that much cash in any simple interest bearing instrument. The Dow is up 11% just since Feb 8.
According to this article, hotel bookings at Trump branded hotels are down. WAAAY down. The Trump hotel in Toronto is in the middle of being sold, and it won’t retain the Trump brand.
That’s the one. The Toronto hotel story. Sorry for my vague recollection earlier.