Don't be such a Jerk, Ukulele Ike

[yosemite]

Rysdad: did any of your band friends cite the local Classical station as their favorite station? Were any of them unable to cite any popular music as being favorites? I had a friend in band. She liked Classical, she liked pop. She didn’t get harrassed (at least as much as me) because she could “fake it” and blend in. She could cite a favorite pop station and favorite songs. I couldn’t. I didn’t. I didn’t listen to pop, didn’t want to. Perhaps I could have “blended in” had I listened to pop, but why should I? My knowledge of music was more “well-rounded” than my harrassers, so I saw no need to expand my repertoire any further, just to please them.

I don’t think things have changed since I was a kid. Kids seem to take their musical tastes very seriously, and as we all know, they can be cruel to anyone who doesn’t fit in. I have friends who listen to Country music who also can relate tales of intolerance. It depends on the setting one is in. I’ve even heard of people who have experienced intolerace for not liking Classical. Once again, it depends on the setting.

I suspect you are unfamiliar with the setting I grew up in, frankly.

Were you so dead set on being your own individual that you singled yourself out as “that weirdo Beethoven chick”?

No. In grade school I was relatively popular, or more accurately, just “one of the kids” with my share of angst, but also my share of friends. High school was definitely more difficult, but I stood out as being the “class artist”; I brought my sketchbook with me everywhere, and drew portraits of classmates. A lot of good things came from that. Got involved in some school-related art projects, etc. A positive experience. But my musical tastes were a problem. I did not want to listen to pop—it was like fingernails down a blackboard to me. And why should I, in order to not be harrassed?

I agree, that should be enough. I don’t think you grasp what I am saying. You have jumped to some incorrect conclusions about my childhood, for one, and also what brought on the harrassment.

Wring is right—you can’t protect kids from being picked on, and you can’t stick your finger in the wind and see what trends are the “norm” and make sure your kids are exposed to each and every one of them in order to protect them. As I mentioned, some people get crap for liking Country, some people will get crap for not liking Classical. You can’t win for losing.

reprise: What? I’m talking about music here.

[kambuckta]

*Originally posted by reprise *
**As I’ve already said in the various other threads relating to this issue, I don’t agree with lee and KellyM’s opinion.

I also think that I have “crossed the line” (not the SDMB’s line, because I would have been banned had I done that) in terms of not “hearing”. I LISTENED to what you had to say, but I did not HEAR.

For that, I apologise. **

I haven’t ‘heard’ it yet either Reprise. I’m not arguing against their stance, but I’m not exactly sure what it is that I’m not arguing against…if you get my drift.

I AM chiding lee for calling out Ukulele Ike on what was (IMHO) just a gentle dig at The New Parent Syndrome.

I AM concerned that lee and KellyM seem to be focussing on the less-important ‘issues’ when it comes to raising kids to be functional human beings…and that they are unable to put any reasons forward (at least in this thread) just WHY Disney is so detrimental to kiddie-health…yet are absolutely rabid about their stance that Disney is UNHEALTHY. If one is so ‘sure’ of the enemy, surely one can articulate what it IS that is so abominable about it?

I personally don’t give a toss one way or t’other about Disney. I don’t have shares in the corporation, nor any other vested interest in perpetuating the ‘dynasty’. My kids were never mega-Disney fans…and I have long out-grown Fantasia (well, sort of anyway).

But this thread shits me all the same. I have not read any posts that have NOT wished lee all the luck in the world. While there has been some minor cajoling, it has (for the most part) been all in good spirit. From my observations, it has been lee and KellyM who have seriously overreacted to everything here. And now they’re demanding apologies??

Good luck lee and KellyM. May your offspring be malleable…(but only to YOUR influences).

[wring]

*Originally posted by kambuckta *
**But this thread shits me all the same. I have not read any posts that have NOT wished lee all the luck in the world. While there has been some minor cajoling, it has (for the most part) been all in good spirit. From my observations, it has been lee and KellyM who have seriously overreacted to everything here. And now they’re demanding apologies??
. **

you seemed to have missed the ones that drew my attention, that suggested that their child was going to be screwed up 'cause of this choice, etc.

[Shirley_Ujest]

It failed because my mother destroyed my portfolio in a deliberate attempt to keep me out of art school.

This is so sad and I am so sorry for your mother’s lack of support in something you hold so dear to you.

I can understand your stance on Disney, I own all the Disney tapes and haven’t put them in for my kids because *frankly * they are not interested.

Thomas the Tank Engine and SpongeBob are numero uno around this house and I like it that way.

Instead of putting out the venomous ban of **No Disney Allowed ** which is more than off-putting. ( I know what it is like to be a female, a female with PMS and to be a pregnant female with raging hormones. I understand the teeth clenching frustration, sister. Cinderella is nothing if not a bottle of co-dependancy, IMHO, but it was my favorite one as a lass. But do I think that Disney is single handedly churning out their cartoons just to make little girls into submissive drones? No. I think it is the parents ( mainly the mom) involvement or lack thereof, in standing up for herself and her beliefs that turn little girls the reflections of their emotionally/spiritually/physically weak parents.)

Instead, try phrasing it, " We are looking to expose our child to strong, positive female role models."

Any gift you receive that is not suitable, unless it is inscribed somehow, can be returned. Believe me, we’ve all done it.
(I’d like to take this time to recommend **Tatterhood ** by ? and **Just Ella ** by ? Haddix for two strong female stories that I can think of off the top of my head.)

[reprise]

*Originally posted by KellyM *
**Indeed, and that was the entire point of the GD thread that turned into a pileon that refused to debate the OP entirely. Shameful, I tell you! Shameful! **

Whoa Bucky. It was your partner - and no-one else - who started the Pit thread. You think that we’re going to cut her some slack just because “she’s pregnant”?

It was you and your partner who made an issue of “the Disney thing”. You didn’t like the response you got. Deal with it. Much as you guys like to believe that in some way you are “special”, you aren’t. At the end of the day, you’re just parents - and like the rest of us, you have to love what you are given.

I’m sure that if I said right now that my experience of transgendered people was a sample of ONE and therefore my children should evaluate every single transgendered person on earth on the basis of your experience, you would try to tell my children that they didn’t have a damn clue what they were talking about because your - personal - experience - is different.

As I said last night, it must be such a sad state of affairs in the US that you have to lie about your gender and your relationships.

And as I said last night, if you think that you have some kind of a priori right to reproduction, then perhaps you’d like to explain to the rest of us why you are so willing to leet the “products of conception” of poor people die while at the same time spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to produce offspring which share your DNA,

If you have the money to buy babies, then at least have the guts to admit that is what you are doing. If you actually GAVE a shit about those kids in those countries then you surre as heck wouldn’t be worried about what was in it for you.

It’s kinda sad that I have to give you a RL example, but I would guarantee you absolutely that if I got taken out by a car tomorrow, my kids would be taken care of. I don’t have to believe in God to believe in all of the people I’ve met through the SDMB. I KNOW - absolutely - that my children would be very well taken care of.

Some off you call it “God”; I call it “trusting in the fact that overall people are pretty cool”.

I’m bailing right now, because I know that my kids have genuine questions which I cannot answer.

Some of the questions my daughters are asking right now are a little bit “difficult” in terms of scripture.

You and Barb might not realise this, Poly, but between you , you have made “God” approachable. I doubt that your deity asks much more of you than to demystify him. And I could NEVER ask for better examples of any particular brand of religion than those I find on the SDMB.

[kambuckta]

No. From my reading, there was no suggestion from the posters that a lack of Disney would/could screw any kid up.
Rather, that ‘missplaced’ idealism could be indicative of other neuroses that MIGHT have some impact upon the kid later on.

If lee and her family are so stressed (to the point of cutting off relations with those who dare to give their kid Disney-based presents and freaking out when some Dopers give them a bit of a gentle ribbing) then maybe THEY have a bit of a problem. And not just with merchandise either.

It’s their craziness about the insignificant things (of which Disney is just one example) that will give their kids a reputation and ‘screw them up’ in the long run.

Nothing will fuck-up a kid quicker than fucked-up parents.

[grendel72]

Gee, I can’t imagine why someone who has to put up with shit like reprise’s comments here, or being called a fucked up parent might get a little snippy. Why, you’d almost believe they could be human rather than gods like the rest of us.

[kambuckta]

*Originally posted by grendel72 *
**Gee, I can’t imagine why someone who has to put up with shit like reprise’s comments here, or being called a fucked up parent might get a little snippy. Why, you’d almost believe they could be human rather than gods like the rest of us. **

Different forum, different thread grendel72 . Unless you are intending to chuck metho on the flames, keep your remarks to stuff that happens here, OK?

[wring]

page one:

from beagledave :rolleyes: poor kid

from **Jax Beachboy ** yea, this kid has a chance

Two people said that they had ‘issues’ with their parenting skills, based on these threads,

from shadez Heh, watch them be in therapy over this… Not saying that they will, just saying that would be ironic

page 3

from** djf750**but don’t we already have enough obnoxious neurotic people in the world? They are going to make another one.

from stofsky Hi, I’m lee and I don’t want my child being anywhere near Disney products because many of the children in the movies don’t have mothers or are orphans. The disrespect for the institution of the family and motherhood is one of the apparently many reasons I want to put Walt’s frozen head in the microwave.

Oh, yeah, the child is the product of my transexual lesbian lover and was conceived while my husband watched."

when I called djf750 on the remark above, the response was

I don’t predict it. I guarantee it. And I suspect that if they are this way about Disney, they have other strong “beliefs” too.

from page 4

from RysdadUnique tastes are one thing. Sequestering your kid from Disney or rock and roll/rhythm and blues/bubblegum music/whatever is something else.

When you do your best to make your child different from the rest of the children, you can expect problems.

yea, I can just feel the love.

[grendel72]

*Originally posted by kambuckta *
**Different forum, different thread grendel72 . Unless you are intending to chuck metho on the flames, keep your remarks to stuff that happens here, OK? **

IOW, that vicious personal attack was posted in the wrong forum so it doesn’t count. How about those in this thread alone, like your ever so charming “fucked up parents” comment?

[kambuckta]

Again, my "Fucked Up Parents’ comment was a generic one…that the neuroses of a parent will hinder a child far more than the impact of Disney ever will. Got it??

[wring]

no response to the list of snarky comments I pulled out for you?

still think that there was nothin’ but good wishes??

[Avalonian]

*Originally posted by KellyM *
**Indeed, and that was the entire point of the GD thread that turned into a pileon that refused to debate the OP entirely. Shameful, I tell you! Shameful! **

That would be because the GD thread (you’re referring to this one, I assume) was based on an invalid premise, and was shown to be so on the first page. In the GD thread (and in this one), you and lee both make pronouncements without backing them up with evidence, and you then get snarky when called on it.

Seems to me that the only thing “shameful” about that thread was the debating style you adopted… make a statement, refuse to back it up with anything more than generalities, then get pissy about the negativve response. Shameful, indeed.

[kambuckta]

*Originally posted by wring *
**no response to the list of snarky comments I pulled out for you?

still think that there was nothin’ but good wishes?? **

This thread started off with good wishes and VERY minor jibes UNTIL the OP cut in with more definitive statements about her position about ‘The Way Things Are Gonna Be.’ THEN some folk challenged her/them about the wisdom of their decisions. THEN the ‘snarky comments’ started…first from lee regarding the lack of caring that parents who bung their kids into childcare exhibit. Then the implication that any parent that doesn’t live up to their ideals is not up to scratch.

And after that, there were numerous posts basically saying…“We respect your right to do what you see fit…but are you damn sure you know what you are railing against???..”

So YES, there was nuthin’ but good wishes for lee and her belly-bulge. There were some ‘snarky’ comments, but only in response to the holier-than-thou comments that erupted from the fingers of lee and KellyB. What’d you expect, given the original OP? Lee was completely OUT OF LINE, not for haranguing a Mod, but for overreacting to a sincere attempt to give her a bit of old-fashioned advice. And by starting this thread, she has invited every bit of advice/criticism/condemnation whether she likes it or not.

[wring]

I disagree. and actually you did claim

From my reading, there was no suggestion from the posters that a lack of Disney would/could screw any kid up.

which, as we see, is wrong.

And the venom you’re continuing to display (“lee and her belly bulge” for example) is much worse, in my book than her comment (which was misquoted and misinterpreted and finally clarified) about the child in day care.

I don’t agree w/their stance RE; Disney either. And I don’t think that they’ve provided objective reasons for their feelings. But ya know, it’s their business. To tell them (as happened here) that they’re going to have a screwed up child 'cause of it is much worse than her getting riled over Ikes’ comments.

YM obviously Varied.

[kambuckta]

*Originally posted by wring *
**I disagree. and actually you did claim
which, as we see, is wrong.

And the venom you’re continuing to display (“lee and her belly bulge” for example) is much worse, in my book than her comment (which was misquoted and misinterpreted and finally clarified) about the child in day care.

I don’t agree w/their stance RE; Disney either. And I don’t think that they’ve provided objective reasons for their feelings. But ya know, it’s their business. To tell them (as happened here) that they’re going to have a screwed up child 'cause of it is much worse than her getting riled over Ikes’ comments.

YM obviously Varied. **

Um, 'scuse me Wring, but I have NEVER suggested that anybody would have a ‘screwed up kid’, either from a lack of Disney or otherwise. Nor did anybody else in this thread maintain that being deprived of Disney (in itself) would lead to a fucked-up kid. Learn to read proper will ya…

The comment about lee and her ‘belly bulge’ was in fact an affectionate term for the baby she currently has residing inside her…it was NOT meant in any sort of disparaging way, rather it was intended to make some ‘light’ in contrast to the unpleasantness that was being aired on this board. I used to call all my babies ‘my bulges’ until they were born…(I didn’t choose to find out the sex of my babes, so therefore, I couldn’t call them a legit name…therefore, my precious ‘bulge/lump/pain in the pudend’ was how they were addressed!!..sorry if it offends you!!)

FYI, I was COMPLETELY clear about the comment and the intent regarding the child-care issue, and as you failed to notice, I did not make any remarks about that. I am also in agreement about their absolute right to make any sorts of lifestyle decisions regarding their child as they see fit.

What I was querying was their distaste for all things Disney, and why it was such a major issue for them. And given that she/they are so vehement about their disapproval of Disney, why they were not willing or able to articulate just WHY it is they find Walt and Co. so objectionable.

So, get fucked Wring…get your ‘facts’ right next time, OK?

[wring]

kammy dear. read the post where I quoted people.

here, I’ll help you out by repeating it:

from Rysdad:

Unique tastes are one thing. Sequestering your kid from Disney or rock and roll/rhythm and blues/bubblegum music/whatever is something else.

When you do your best to make your child different from the rest of the children, you can expect problems.

and from djf750

don’t we already have enough obnoxious neurotic people in the world? They are going to make another one.
snip I don’t predict it. I guarantee it. And I suspect that if they are this way about Disney, they have other strong “beliefs” too.

IOW, yes, indeed, people were suggesting their child was going to be screwed up 'cause of their Disney stance.

so better check your own reading comprehension before you call mine into question.

you claim that the ‘belly bulge’ comment was an ‘affectionate’ term for the person you also said was a ‘fucked up parent’. Obviously we’re using different meanings for “affectionate”.

“affectionately” yours.

wring.

[yosemite]

I’d like to addess Rysdad’s comment about the comment “Sequestering your kid from Disney or rock and roll/rhythm and blues/bubblegum music/whatever is something else.” because it was prompted by my tale of being a Classical geek as a kid.

My parents didn’t “sequester” me from pop music. (As in ban it, forbid it from my life.) And yet I still got SHIT, because I didn’t like it and they didn’t encourage it. And, in case I didn’t make this clear before, I didn’t get shit in every facet of my life (I was not targeted for everything because of my musical tastes). But I got SHIT because I had “different” music tastes. That’s what happens with everyone who is different in any teeny weeny way. Some people are assholes. They’ll find an excuse to be an asshole. To try and avoid assholish treatment by “blending in” and trying to let your kids be everything to everyone and love everything is folly. It will never work. My parents knew that, and I didn’t blame them for raising me the way they did. They did me no harm. The assholes who were jerks were jerks. and would have been no matter what.

[yosemite]

Bleah. I should have previewed. Oh well, I hope I made some modicum of sense.

[KellyM]

*Originally posted by reprise *
**And as I said last night, if you think that you have some kind of a priori right to reproduction, then perhaps you’d like to explain to the rest of us why you are so willing to leet the “products of conception” of poor people die while at the same time spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to produce offspring which share your DNA,

If you have the money to buy babies, then at least have the guts to admit that is what you are doing. **

What in the hell are you talking about?