The original Grumpy Old Man
As compared to 1969, much more of London real estate is owned by rich “furriners” who leave the houses and flats vacant, and young dudes like Cleese was in 1969 can’t afford to live anywhere. Same deal in New York, Vancouver, and other desirable cities.
Also, you see more “Pret a Porters” and Starbucks on the street fronts than old-fashioned pubs and tea rooms.
I agree with him, but I am an old fart of 58.
(Race and ethnicity doesn’t enter into it, for me, anyway. I enjoy watching the hot Asian/African/Middle Eastern chicks saunter past as much as the little blondie English roses.)
As an Irish-American I appreciate that observation. But when I visit London I get all Anglophile and teary-eyed. It’s tough to maintain your prejudices when you’re surrounded by such charming, polite, nice, cheerful, and dog-loving people.
My guess is it is more about globalization where the same stores and same restaurants are everywhere. There is a loss of local ‘flair’ when you are essentially the same as everywhere else.
You’re right. Only called him a nazi and said git him.
Let me know when Cleese advocates invading Russia.
…you’re talking about the OP, which under the most charitable interpretation is being sarcastic?
ok
I always get confused as to what Brits are talking about when they describe something as “English”, on account of the multiple-kingdoms issue. I presume they’re generally not using the term to exclude the Scots and Welsh?
As near as I can figure out, “English” typically means “British, but in an old-fashioned traditional sort of way”.
Here is a story about the comments Cleese made. He’s also moved out of England for the time being.
I think “English” pretty explicitly excludes Scots and Welsh. Certainly any Scots and Welshfolk hearing it won’t consider themselves to have been included.
IMO saying ‘English’ to mean ‘British of any kind’ is not something that would endear an Englishman to his Scottish/Welsh/Irish compatriots, any more than the reverse would, and the inhabitants of the not-English parts of the U.K. are pretty keenly aware of their own separate ‘not English’ identities. English pretty much means English
No, Stan-called-Loretta was Eric Idle. Please try to keep your comedians straight.
Let’s start with the ignorance that “UK = English”. No, the UK is English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish and a few other smaller things.
Saying that London isn’t an English City isn’t saying that it’s overrun with foreigners or any such nonsense. It’s saying that it isn’t really “English” (alone) anymore. It’s something more/different than that now.
Yeah, I get the literal sense of “English” as referencing the specific part of the UK that isn’t Wales or Scotland or Ireland or those few other things. What puzzles me is this metaphorical nostalgic use of the term.
I mean, obviously in the literal sense Cleese would be completely wrong that London “isn’t an English city anymore”, because the city of London is just as much in England as it ever was. But when he uses “isn’t an English city anymore” metaphorically, obviously he doesn’t mean that London has become too Scottish or Welsh or Irish. So why didn’t he say “isn’t a British city anymore” instead?
But what I don’t really get is the difference in connotation between calling it an “English city” and calling it a “British city”. Is London in Cleese’s view still a “British city” even if it’s not really an “English city” anymore, and if so, what’s the difference? Literally, of course, London is still both a British city and an English city.
I was listening to a history podcast several months ago and for absolutely no reason the hosts started to get really angry at something John Cleese had apparently said then recently but at no point in their 5 minute rant did they ever actually tell the audience what exactly John Cleese had said.
I hate podcasts now.
No, we mean English. It is a distinct nationality. Nothing to do with Scots and Welsh and Irish. Amazingly, we do have our own identity, even if it doesn’t come with a national costume!
I suspect he’s thinking in English cultural terms - there’s a whole host of nostalgically English things which are distinct from generic British. London may be capital of the UK, but it’s still a distinctly English place (or was, in his view. Not mine. ). Gentlemen’s clubs, afternoon tea, blah blah
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Consider an analogy: France is part of Europe, but when a French person thinks of Paris, the first thing that comes to mind is probably “Paris is a great French city” rather than “Paris is a great European city”. Even though both of these things are true - being French is likely to be a bigger part of a French person’s identity than being European, even if they like being a part of Europe.
Similarly, John Cleese probably identifies as English a lot more than he does as British. That’s not uncommon. In fact, one of the big problems with the word “British” when used in the nostalgic cultural sort of sense, rather than pragmatically as “things on some part of the island of Great Britain” is that people from other bits of Britain deeply suspect that when English people say “British” they secretly mean “English” but have temporarily forgotten that the not-English bits actually exist.
I have no great experience of what Northern Irish people think of the word “British” when used to mean “any part of the UK” but I can’t imagine they’re totally in favour.
My take is that he’s saying that it’s a European or generic international city without much local character.
Cleese is from the left-wing of the Brexit cheerleaders. He despises the British right-wing( so no, not a Nazi ), but isn’t a fan of EU membership. This just looks like part and parcel of that view.