Man, we’re quite today. My idea of trying to gain more information on the two principles of today’s action has been met with resounding silence. At this point I’m thinking of unvoting Thing because my vote looks like its going to be wasted and I’m not helping to town by throwing it away. But I think I give the idea 24 more hrs to catch on. If I’ve got no support by then I’ll place my vote on the person I see as scummiest.
Unkempt, I feel your pain. It sucks to be on the receiving end of a bandwagon. I totally understand how your vote switch could have come from a Town motivation, you have not failed to adequately explain that. However, I can also totally see how it could have come from a Scum motivation. I am not at all convinced you’re scum, I wouldn’t even go so far as to say I think you’re probably scum, but I don’t see anyone else as more suspicious than you right now. I will continue to look for other candidates; I am initially not too impressed with BlaM’s case against Hoopy, but something tells me BlaM’s response to Hoopy’s defense is not going to be “Oh, OK, that totally explains it”, so we’ll see. But now it is getting late in the Day, so it will take something pretty impressive to move my vote.
And to quote myself about my posts toward the end of Yesterday:
By late in the Day, I was actually no longer even trying to defend myself, I was trying to present an analysis of the bandwagon that people could look back on later once I was confirmed Town.
It seems to me that the most pro-Town action a player facing apparently-certain lynch can take is to anticipate and try to contribute to the discussion that will take place the next day. Remember, if you’re lynched and turn up Town, people will be much more inclined to look back on what you say now and take it seriously. Not much comfort, I know, but remember, almost all of us will probably end up dead one way or the other before this thing is over.
(Snipped to heck and back)
Ol this ois how my mind works. They both had votes on you. RyJaye moves his vote kind of late. Looks like a distance of a you lynch. But then even later The Unkempt One moves his vote. I just don’t see how that would have happened if they were both scum. The late vote shift is suspicious as heck when looking at either one individually, but as a communal action - doesn’t seem plausible. Or it was the worst newbie scum move I would have ever seen. Now, what I can’t figure out is why RyYaye moved his vote so late. If he is what he says he is then doesn’t know which, if either, of the candidates are scum for sure. So the fact that he moved it seems motivated, if we believe his claim, to be along the lines of voting for the most likely scum.
Crap, probably making no sense and rambling at this point.
(Bolding mine)
I am still trying to get caught up but, huh?
I think anyrose was town.
Cues the Twilight Zone music and waits for Rod Steiger (smoking on television none the less).
It was intended to be a light hearted endorsement of getting a vote in early.
Said only in the way that I communicate - one in which only I comprehend.
BTW - The above is my issue not others.
I think Dotchan said it well upthread. We don’t have a lot of wiggle room at this point. RyJaye’s cliam and Blam’s status confirmation can be accepted at this point - maybe.
We need to hit a scum today or else if those Gastards target correctly during the evening we are down to a ten little Indians kind of situation.
Once again, my flippin’ two cents.
I still should be hanging around a quarter. If more, then just whack my credit card.
Vote Count
**The Unkempt One - 4 ** (Hoopy Frood, fluiddruid, peekercpa, Thing Fish)
**Oredigger77 - 2 ** (RyJae, peekercpa)
**fluiddruid - 1 ** (The Unkempt One)
**Thing Fish - 1 ** (Oredigger77)
**Hoopy Frood - 1 ** (Blaster Master)
Not Voting
Dotchan, bufftabby, Zsofia, cckerberos
Oredigger77, why are you still voting Thing Fish? I ask, not because I’ve decided that Thing Fish is necessarily Town, but because of a couple of your posts yesterDay. I’ve had a funny feeling about you, but then you’ve not been here much toDay, so it kind of dissipated until re-read. I noticed you have a rather large number of posts where you’re pretty much posting to say that you don’t have much to post. However, you do have a couple of substantial-enough posts. Here’s a couple that caught my eye:
#302
This post interested me for a couple of reasons. First, you seem to admit (my bolding above) that there’s not much of a case against Thing Fish. Which is, of course, interesting, seeing as how we’ve got less than 48 hours left in the Day, and your vote still lays on him. Second, you seem to be doing something even more subtle than smudging Blaster Master, which seems scummy to me. Once, I could understand. But then:
#340
This seems very odd to me. Yet again you’re defending Thing Fish and smudging BlaM, yet you are still voting for Thing Fish, both toDay and yesterDay. Why would you not vote for the person you claim to find the scummiest, BlaM? I can think of two possibilities: he’s Town, and you’re scum who doesn’t want to attract too much attention from BlaM, but you’d like it if someone would take the cues you’ve given and accuse BlaM for you. Another possibilty: you’re scum, BlaM is scum, and your reference to being led around by the nose by him is perhaps in reaction to him being the Godfather, explaining his appearance as Town to a Detective, and explaining how you would have a heightened sense of being led around by the nose by him.
Let me make myself clear: I believe the first case much more likely than the second, but either scenario ends up with you as scum, Oredigger77. I simply can’t think of any pro-town motivation for you to continue to vote for Thing Fish although you clearly believe he has defended himself well, and have in fact stated that you find BlaM scummier, nor for you to smudge BlaM without even the courtesy of an FoS.
vote Oredigger77
CoG888: if peekercpa gets to have two votes, I want two votes! 
No, seriously, you’ve got him listed as voting for both oredigger77 and the Unkempt One.
Oredigger77 is his most recent vote
Ooops, sorry. looks like Vote Counts #538, #556, and #567 were wrong.
Correct Vote Count
**The Unkempt One - 3 ** (Hoopy Frood, fluiddruid, Thing Fish)
**Oredigger77 - 3 ** (RyJae, peekercpa, bufftabby)
**fluiddruid - 1 ** (The Unkempt One)
**Thing Fish - 1 ** (Oredigger77)
**Hoopy Frood - 1 ** (Blaster Master)
Not Voting
Dotchan, Zsofia, cckerberos
Well, it’s now 3 to 3 against The Unkempt One and Oredigger77. The reasons for voting against TUO have been rehashed a number of times Today because of RyJae/TUO’s votes yesterday, but OD’s candidacy for lynching seems to have jumped out of nowhere. I think it’s worth reviewing the case against him.
RyJae’s vote in 406 (first post of the Day), based on Koldanar quasi-FOS towards OD. This seems a little odd to me given that while Koldanar did say that he was “beginning to think” OD had “something to hide,” he actually voted for Thing Fish. So RJ vote (which hasn’t shifted all Day) was based on a minor gut reflex on the part of someone who didn’t himself think it was enough to base a vote on. In 432, Blaster Master noted that this was a little odd, and added his opinion that trying to guess why someone was killed gets very WIFOM and not a great thing to base a vote on. That this vote has stood as is for the entire day without any additional basis or explanation from RJ seems very strange to me.
In 436 Zsofia smudges OD by remarking that he has a tendency to smudge BM
In 529 peekercpa places the second vote fro OD because he’s lurking. OD replies in 540 that there are worse lurkers.
The third votes come in 568 when bufftabby votes for OD because she finds his decision to keep his vote on TF throughout Day 1 despite admitting in 302 to not having much reason for it to be suspicious.
So we have 3 votes for 3 different reasons, 2 of which have very little basis behind them. There might be something to BT’s logic, but I don’t find that alone enough reason to vote for him.
As such, I’m going to go with TUO, at least partly as a poor man’s RyJae. The case against him isn’t quite as clear in my mind, but as other’s have said I feel it necessary to take RJ’s roleclaim in consideration.
vote The Unkempt One
At this point I have to admit that things don’t look too promising for me. I have done my best to explain my actions, and I am not entirely sure what more I can do to try to save myself. I have tried to give you guys as much information as possible so that you can see that I really have nothing to hide…my story hasn’t changed and I think that my reasons for changing my vote at the last minute have been pretty consistent from one post to the next.
So, with that said, I am going to read through the thread again and see what I can find to try to contribute anything helpful before what may be my final sunset. I don’t look forward to my lynching, but if the lynching of another townie can help you find some scum, then in the end I suppose that I am still helping in some way.
Well I though I explained myself pretty well yesterday regarding why I’m voting for Thing but apparently not. I don’t think that we have enough information to figure out the motivation of the scum in Day 1. We know that anyrose is town but we have no idea about Thing. With out this we can’t eliminate the possibility of scum trying to build townie cred and then see another option lynching a townie instead. don’t think that all three of them, Thing, RyJae, and Unkempt, are scum but I think it’s possible that two are. I think lynching Thing will give us the full knowledge that scum were working with regarding anyrose/thing and from there we can back track actions from this knowledge. But as I said in my last post yesterday me voting for thing was just an attempt to gain knowledge and since no one else has joined me in this idea it seems to be a wasted vote which I will change to who I feel is most scummy at 4 MT. I also didn’t have much to say on Day 1 I was still trying to figure stuff out but I didn’t want to get lynched as a lurker. Notice I stopped saying that on Day 2 because now there is enough to talk about.
What can I say, I didn’t see anything scummy at that point, it wasn’t until everyone changed their votes over to anyrose, which I though was a bad idea and said so, that anything scummy happened. I’m not sure what is more subtle then smudging but that I’m not sure what smudging is except as its been used in context so far which seems to be anything saying that you don’t trust a player without voting for them. Can I get some clarification on terms?
I’d hardly call that defending Thing but he did do a good job defending his actions but he still committed those things that looked scummy. The way I figured it on Day 1 we have to lynch someone and the person with the most scummy actions should be that one. BlaM posting multiple pages of strategy and every one jumping all over themselves to agree with what I admitted multiple times was good advice seemed like it could lead to some where bad. I felt that calling everyone’s attention to it would at least make us wearier and less likely to be misled. But his advice was good and giving good advice isn’t scummy the last time I checked so I didn’t vote for him. I can explain further if you would like but between my posts to BlaM on Day1 and this I think you should be able to understand where I’m coming from.
\
Ok well I’m guessing that reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit because I explained exactly why I was voting for Thing on Day 2 in the same post that I voted for him. I asked for comments from people about my strategy which apparently you disagree with but I got no responses except from him to which I replied further explaining myself so if your still missing why I just have to wonder. I’m not sure if you noticed since you missed my vote explanation but I haven’t said anything about BlaM on Day 2 because he hasn’t done anything scummy. Yes, I am watching him more closely then others but until he does something I don’t think talking about it is productive. I think I’ve addressed all of this but if not I’d be glad to explain further, if nothing else it would get that lurker vote off me. I do want to restate my vocab questions though; why is FOS a courtesy?
Your definition of smudging is pretty close to what I understand it to be. It typically involves attacking a player with an unsupported or weakly supported toss-off comment and not using a vote or FOS. It’s considered anti-town, because it adds very little if any concrete evidence to the overall discussion and it allows one to plant seeds of doubt without having to go on any real record. I actually didn’t find your statements about Blaster to be smudging. I viewed them as you just being advising everyone to be cautious about trusting an unconfirmed player too much. But one person’s smudge is another person’s FoS and a third person’s “meh”.
I think the reason FoS is considered a courtesy is that it emphasizes for all, particularly the person in question, that you think something is a bit off about the person. It indicates that you want to hear more from the person, but you don’t think their actions rise to the level of voteworthy. Some players love them and use them extensively; some don’t ever use them because they don’t think they really serve any purpose. It’s a stylistic element pretty much, so Bufftabby calling you out for not using it isn’t exactly fair. You wouldn’t be the first person who doesn’t use them. I don’t think I’ve ever used one (I know I haven’t in this game, and I don’t recall using one in Batman), and haven’t really decided whether I ever would or not yet.
Hey thanks for the information.
It’s not just his Day One vote. It is still his vote at this point in Day Two.
See, this still seems very strange to me. It’s one thing to gain information from a mislynch, but to vote for someone who you don’t see as the scummiest, and have in fact admitted is responding to his critics fairly well, just doesn’t seem like the right way to go about finding information. I’m especially suspicious now of the fact that you’re going to change your vote right at the end of the Day. Who plans to do that?!?
You is right. Me is stupid. You wins.
So now you are watching him more closely than others; earlier, you said he was scummier than Thing Fish. I’ve read your reasons for voting the way you are, and I still don’t understand why your voting pattern in Day Two is so strange.
To be more clear: to say that you find someone scummier than the person you are voting for seems to me to be a major smudge, and even with an FoS thrown in, I still wouldn’t be comfortable with that sort of off-hand, unexplained smudge.
Okay, it’s getting down to the wire. I really don’t have a good feel on who to vote for - I still don’t like RyJae at all but will give his detective claim a chance. Between TUO and Oredigger, I’d have to say the scummiest actions came from TUO, notwithstanding Koldanar’s suspicions before he died. My gut still thinks there’s something not right with Oredigger, but I can’t really back it up. So, as the poor man’s RyJae, I’ll
vote The Unkempt One
Ok I think I’m understanding you now. Basically what you’re saying is that no matter what I need to vote for the person that I think is scummiest despite the usefulness of that vote. I’m not sure I buy that. Votes should be used to accomplish something.
In the case of Day 2 voting I am using my vote to stand behind what I think is a good strategy. But this is only useful if people see that I support myself and join me. Which they don’t seem to be doing. I want to give people plenty of time to join me hence the late day switch. But I still want my vote to matter at the end of the day which it wouldn’t it I gained no support. Also as soon as I move my vote my idea will die a quite death and I don’t want that to be premature.
At the end of the day the only votes that matter are those that lead to a lynch or those come close to a lynch, in other words either the votes on Thing or anyrose on Day 1 all others were wasted and accomplish the same as not voting. I think this answers your questions if not I’ll try again.
You’re right. I missed his vote in 527. I think I understand the logic he’s following; if Thing Fish is lynched and turns out to be scum then it becomes less likely that either RyJae or The Unkempt One are scum. Scum can have strategic reasons for voting for other scum but the benefits of voting for scum and then jumping off the bandwagon at the last minute are unclear to me. Blaster Master mentions “saving a fellow scum” in 536, but I don’t think that’s likely. RJ and TUO were the 3rd and 4th votes for TF. With no other likely targets for lynching at the moment I just can’t see why scum would have applied the pressure that pushed TF to the front of the line. So Oredigger77’s logic appears sound to me there. However, if TF is lynched and turns out to have been town we’ll be down a townie and have gained no useful information that I can see because TF being a townie does prove either RJ or TUO scum. One or both of them could still be a townie who just screwed up.
So it seems to me that it all still comes down to whether or not you believe TF to be scum. If he is we’ll gain information by lynching him, if he’s not we won’t. OD doesn’t seem to think that he is (he said that RJ/TUO’s actions seemed the scummiest to him), but is voting for him anyway. That seems suspicious to me.