Downspout drainage - grading properly

So I am replacing all of the downspout drains on my property. I’ve already trenched out the area where the drains will go.

My question is what is the best way to grade the bottom of the trench for proper drainage down to the outlet point? My thought is to use two stakes and string. Tie the string to stake one at/near the ground level of the first stake and then tie the other end to the 2nd stake making sure it is level. Once it is level, lower the string on stake 2 a couple inches and secure. Then back-fill the trench, spreading the dirt to match the string line between the two stakes. Lather-rinse-repeat for each say… 20 foot section of trench.

Is this how it is done? Is there a better way?

Thanks,

MeanJoe

Downspout drains?

My downspouts end with concrete splash pans, with the water flowing over my lawn. At that point the ground soaks it up like a sponge.

I’ve never heard of trenching at the bottom of the downspout, however it sounds like your system is a good way to get a consistent slope.

Maybe I need to clarify… this will be a pipe system to take water from the downspouts from the gutters out and away from my property underground.

Therefore, I needed to dig a trench for the 4" PVC pipes. At each downspout, the pipes will go vertical from underground to above ground with a downspout adapter. Each downspout will feed into the main pipe which carries the water away. It is this main pipe trench line which needs to be graded such that water flows where it is supposed to go. Once the bottom of the trench is graded, I’d lay the pipe (heh-heh) and back-fill the rest of the trench to rebury the whole thing.

MeanJoe

This may help explain my question. Photo album of the progress so far:

Sounds like you’ve got it done nearly perfect. A common drainage pitch for run-off is 1/8" per foot, and you have 1/10" per foot. Probably good enough. My brother had to do the same thing when he found there was a layer of impermeable clay a foot below grade that was allowing all of the run-off back into his basement.

The minimum slope I’d design a pipe for is 0.4%, although I try never to specify one flatter than 0.5% (that is, 0.005 ft/ft).

Have you called the ulitilty locators?

Yes, did all of that prior to digging. zap!

So over 100 feet that would work out to a 10" total drop? Thus, if every 20 feet I make sure I’m dropping 2" then I should be good. I figure 20 feet of my two stakes/string solution is manageable. Trying to go longer than that I’m thinking may result in more difficulties.

MeanJoe

Heh. Excellent.

2" over 20 ft = 0.8% should be fine. I think there’s a way to work it out using a carpenters’ level also (1/2 bubble per foot? something like that).

for $35 you can buy a laser beam level at your local hardware store.

To answer your question: Water will flow through a pipe at any slope. (Pour a glass of water on a tabletop to see what I mean.) What you want is to keep water flowing at a decent rate to move sediment rather than letting it accumulate. Shallower slopes are fine when the pipe is larger, but I’d try to keep to plumbing standards. So, a minimum of 1/8"/foot (1%) to 1/4"/foot (2%) will keep water moving along at a decent rate. Tie a string to stakes, adjust it with a level, and do the math based on the drop over the length.

However, I think that there are some other issues raised by your post that may not have been addressed.

It appears that you are collecting storm runoff from your roof by means of gutters and downspouts, directing them to a common drain, and then having that drain outlet through a retaining wall adjacent to a sidewalk in a public right-of-way. Did I get that correctly from your photos?

If so, just bear in mind that most storm drainage regulations require a property owner to control that storm drainage on the same property, and not to direct it to another property (either public or private). There is some flexibility to this, of course. For example, regulating authorities tend to turn a blind eye toward homeowners while holding commercial property owners to meet this requirement. In older cities (especially those with small building lots) before people paid much attention to storm drainage control, there is a lot of pre-existing flow from private properties to public ways, and it is difficult or impossible to keep this runoff on your own property. However, in your case you are taking drainage that currently flows over your yard, spreading the flow out and allowing it to infiltrate a bit, and you are concentrating it to one point. Imagine walking down the sidewalk by that outlet, and you can see that a pedestrian might as well be walking in the gutter. It is entirely possible that no one will object to your design solution, but be prepared if someone comes knocking on your door.

Let’s assume that your solution is acceptable. You are not very deep at all with your drain. So don’t be surprised if this line freezes solid over the winter and is virtually unusable during those months. The problem is not usually with a major rain on a warm winter day, but rather with a continuous light rain that starts to flow through a pipe within the frost line and gradually coats the inside of the pipe with ice. The exposed end of the pipe through the wall will allow below freezing air to further this problem. A possible solution here is to heat trace the line before you backfill and to turn on the heat when necessary.

I don’t know what sort of soils you have, but if they are at all permeable and if your groundwater table is low, I would consider trying to get the roof runoff away from the building and into an infiltration system of some sort. You can buy some relatively low cost perforated plastic structures or pipes at a home supply warehouse, dig a hole and surround them with crushed stone. A lot of digging, so stock up on the Yuengling.

If your soils are not well drained, here’s a suggestion. Put perforated pipe and crushed stone in the trench as a groundwater collection system. It can be flat if you like. Perforations should face down. If the pipe doesn’t have a sock (a geotextile “condom”), then you will need to wrap the pipe and stone in a geotextile fabric to keep fine soils from clogging the stone and pipe. If the pipe does have a sock, try to mix some sand in the crushed stone to prevent voids that will allow migration of these “fines”. A pipe that only picks up groundwater will have much less concentrated flow, and will probably be much less of an impact in a public way.

Then have your downspouts outfall to concrete splash blocks (as mentioned above by Duckster) to direct the drainage away from your building and toward your infiltration trench. Bear in mind that the best way to keep drainage away from your house is to adjust the surface grades. I like to maintain a six inch drop from the face of the building to a point ten feet away. If necessary (or possible) you can raise the grades at the face of the building, but you should leave a minimum of 8 inches from that grade to any wood parts of your house (check local building codes).

Good luck.

Not to speak for MeanJoe, but I think this is just replacing an old system, which had already been discharging in the same spot.

Does Ohio really get cold enough to worry about ice in storm drains?

I’m sure the storm drains these lead to are deep enough but looking at the pics of the trenches his pipes will end up within a couple inches of the surface. According to Bob the frost line in Ohio is 36".

Interesting. Thanks. :slight_smile:

Check, that is what I did. The stakes method and not pouring water on my table. :wink:

I hate it when he/she says that… :smiley:

Very good point. I looked into this and as far as I could tell (neighborhood association) this is okay in this neighborhood. In fact, it is how all the homes with a raised lot are drained. I am replacing an older drainage system that was in place - 3" corrigated plastic… yeah, that was a great idea!

In the back of the house it is more shallow than it should be. The rest of the line, as you go down the house, is at about 18" (+/-). I ran into two problems in the back. 1.) the cistern that I did not know was there and 2.) gas lines.

One of the drivers of getting these drains underground is my overall landscaping plan for the back. I will be adding another 6" of soil (minimum) to that entire area. That still won’t get the pipes as deep as I’d like but it will be better. I’ll have to keep an eye on the pipes for freezing issues for sure.

I always have a stock of Yuengling on hand! Shame I can’t buy it in stores here in Ohio yet.

As to the sort of soil. At about the 18" level I started hitting more clay. Not sure what that means…

This sounds, if I’m not mistaken, like a French Drain?

Thank you for the very thorough response and suggestions, I really appreciate it. (I say that after considering your suggestions and the amount of work I completed in the last 2 days and deciding for good or bad I’m 90% done now and would not survive changing course! Not offense intended to your excellent advice but I’m whooped!! Haha) I got everything tied together except for the last couple feet to the retaining wall. I hose tested the drains and much to my relief the water… she flowed! So tomorrow I’m going to back-fill and tamp-tamp-tamp. We are due for two days of rain mid-week so hopefully that will also help settle the soil in and I’ll have an idea by mid-week how much (if any) soil I’ll need to add to get the lawn back in order before re-seeding.

Thanks again for the advice and suggestions. I’m off to bed and will try not to worry now about the line freezing in the winter! (With as exhausted as I am from the last two days I’m fairly certain any worry will only last about 5 minutes before sleeping like a baby!)

MeanJoe