Just to add one thing. I am an American citizen, born & bred here. I am married to a foreign national, who is applying for a Green Card.
She has now waited over 2 years, since the first application was sent in, and we have spent countless money on lawyers fees etc. She is not even allowed to leave the country, and we have recently applied for an advance parole, so that she may go back and visit her elderly grandmother, because of the ridiculous amount of time that the whole process is taking.
That is the proper way that law abiding, honest, good people go about things.
I’m sorry, but I have zero sympathy for illegal aliens.
greck: I know a criminal or two. And yet I’m not prejudiced against them. There very well may be a number of people who anti-illegal immigrant because they are anti-immigrant. That does not mean those of us who are anti-illegal immigrant are prejudiced. Some of us, such as I, don’t see why someone should be rewarded for violating a law that is not unconstitutional.
Actually, you didn’t need proof of legal residence to get a CA driver’s license until 1993. That year, a law was passed to require proof in one of the forms listed in a post above. Even Cruz Bustamante voted for that one, though he’s squirming now trying to explain it to his “constituency”.
I don’t think I am prejudiced, and I’m sure many illegal immigrants are fine people, but the hypocrisy of having a law against working without a green card and then, not only letting it go unenforced, but actually subverting the whole idea by giving out driver’s licenses and requiring local governments and hospitals to provide free services to illegals is really starting to grind me. And the people it hurts most in terms of undercutting wages are legal Mexican immigrants and blacks.
Then you have the Mexican government meddling in the internal affairs of the U.S. by agitating for “amnesty” and non-enforcement of existing law and border security, on “humanitarian” grounds. You know how Mexico deals with illegal Central American immigrants on its southern border? Hint: it involves guns and billy clubs.
I think “viva la raza” means, roughtly, “long live the race”. Meaning the Hispanic race or whatever Mexicans consider their race to be. I know that Hispanic isn’t a race, so don’t get upset.
Some Mexicans supposedly consider illegal immigration their right, since CA and the southwest US were “stolen” from them. So they’ll settle it in such large numbers that it will basically become Mexican again. They’re doing a good job. 1/2 of all births in CA last year were Hispanic (whether illegal or not).
California has nearly 40 million people(who knows how exactly many illegal aliens). It used to be the high tech center of America (back when America had high tech). I think it used to account for 1/7th of our economy.
If California goes into bankruptcy, or even a recession, then it would be nearly impossible for the rest of the country to do well economically.
Trust me, you do not want California to go bankrupt, You also do not want to lose the taxes paid by Californians and expect our federal budget to be in surplus either. The health of the national economy is very dependent on California being economically healthy.
Well the state of CA going bankrupt is no big deal. It’s not like every person in CA is bankrupt, it just means that CA has to suspend debt payments for a while and get its act in order.
It would result in higher borrowing costs, but the biggest effect would be the higher taxes and the realization that CA is just an unstable system. You have a gov’t giving goodies to unions, trial lawyers, illegal immigrants, in exchange for policitical contributions and when the bill comes due, they just stick it to the taxpayers. You have prison guards making 100K out there b/c Davis wanted their union votes.
WC costs have gone from 7B to 25B or something like that in the past 6 years, mostly due to lawyers fees and fraud. What does Davis care? The businesses that have to pay don’t vote for him anyway!! The lawyers contribute to his campaign.
Eventually taxes will go up quite a bit in CA. Businesses that haven’t moved out will have even more incentive to do so.
I heard CA actually LOST 600K residents before immigration effects in the past 5 or 10 years.
It’s a perfect laboratory to see how the Democrats run something when they control everything. They give the loot to the unions and trial lawyers and stick the evil, greedy taxpayers with the bill! I love it!
What do federal immigration laws have to do with a states motor vehicle laws?
Christ, to hear half the people on this board youd think the states were nothing more than administrative districts of the federal government.
States are seperate entities with a certain amount of sovereignity they have on their own. All of us americans have a certain amount of dual citizenship, that of our state and that of the US.
It is perfectly legal for Ca or any other state to determine for themselves the qualifications necessary in that state to operate a motor vehicle. If they so choose to link those qualifications to federal citizenship status, they may. Or, they may not.
Illegal immigrints arent breaking any California State laws that I am aware of, and in the absence of the federal governments legal authority to dictate motor vehicles laws, its hard to see how it challenges federal law.
As a matter of fact, Im not aware of any law making it illegal for people convicted of federal crimes or felonies to drive. People get out after being put away for racketeering; they still drive dont they?
Why has the whole issue of motor vehicle eligibility been tied to one particular federal crime, being an illegal immigrint, but not others?
Why is it that those who seem to have the most problem with immigration in Ca, arent from Cal? As far as Im concerned, Cal is partly american, partly mexican; and not fully either or perhaps fully both. Other parts of the US have their own particular mixtures, well great you have them, we have ours.
On the practical side, Ca is risking the feds displeasure which in these matters usually means the withdrawing of federal highway funds (which were collected by the state in the first place), a la helmet and seat belt laws. But I say hell with it, lets risk the feds displeasure. Lets more fully flesh out the line between federal and state, once and for all.
Yes, the whole thing is a pretty transparent (and cynical) bribe, but the best time to use politicians is when they are vulnerable. Only wish we could manage to keep them that way.
Illegals who go to california and get a drivers license, can (now) then go to any state and get a license in other states.
After they get a drivers license, illegals can then buy guns, fly on airplanes, take out credit, get voter registration cards, get welfare, food stamps, and vote in the elections in all other states.
The only solution that other states would have, would be for all of them to not honor Californian drivers licenses anymore.
If California hands out drivers licenses to illegals, I will join the fight in all other states to refuse to honor California drivers licenses.
It wont solve everything, e.g. an illegal in California could still buy guns in California and then take those guns to Nevada. We would have to set up a border patrol on the entire Nevada state line to at least make sure that the armed illegal, or any Californian, does not “drive” into Nevada. I dont see anything else other states can do to mitigate the problems, that California would cause by doing this.
Please cite??? from the Constitution where illegals have a right to buy guns, fly on our airplanes, get food stamps, welfare, vote in our states, drive in all of our states, etc.
What exactly is the problem? I grew up in an area with up to 60% of residents being immigrants- a good portion illegal. I never once, in my whole entire life, heard of anyone wanting to buy a bunch of guns and take them to Nevada.
Let me explain this again. A driver’s license is not proof of citizenship. It has never been. Many non-citizens hold driver’s licenses, and can do all of the things that you mentioned with those driver’s licenses. A good portion of illegal immigrants could do many of those things (such as fly) with a passport or other legal identification from their home country.
A driver’s license is proof of identification. Proof that you are who you say you are. Which is probably the last thing that these mysterious Nevada gun smugglers are interested in having on the record.
Nothing wrong with my delete key, you’re now ignorant with your full post displayed.
You don’t know any illegal immigrants, that makes you ignorant.
I wasn’t implying anything with regards to the Irish, I was stating overtly that your speech sounds like racially based hate speech.
I’m glad your wife is getting her green card the right way, (it’s not green by the way) welcome to the club. Enjoy the process of getting her citizenship, it’s taking longer and longer these days because of the paranoia being spread about Immigrants. The waiting gets even longer if you want a tourist visa for a relative to visit. You would help yourself to spread some good immigrant sentiment around, or at least some understanding if you can muster it.
Meanwhile, A driver’s license can be viewed as a reward, it can also be viewed as a responsibility. With responsibility comes, well, being more responsible. Isn’t that what we want people to be in the first place?
Accessing a driver’s license does little to make crossing the border easier, it doesn’t get you a social security number, it doesn’t get you anything but registered to drive.
In fact, if you have a fake social security number, which many illegal immigrants do, wouldn’t having to register for things make it more likely that they’d get caught and deported?
I simply don’t see how having licenses isn’t a step toward increased legality of a person’s presence and actions in the US.
If a person has a photo ID, his employer can copy that ID, that ID is likely to have things like an address on it. With that address, the police are able to find him more easily if he commits a violent crime, or a crime that involves a victim.
I don’t want criminals here more than anyone else. I don’t want people coming to this country with the specific intent to commit crimes. The commission of crossing the border as a crime? Well, that one’s pretty low on my priority list of things to worry about, I’m more concerned about being mugged by someone who is desperate, or having people sell drugs cause they can’t find a legit job.
When someone starts buying bomb making materials and taking flight instructions, I think it would be nice if someone had a record of an address for this person, maybe even a credit report, a paper trail is nice.
Suppose a terrorist comes here with intent to be a suicide bomber. What’s more likely to deter that person, comfort or discomfort? I figure if a guy comes here, finds out that he can live quite comfortably, he’s less likely to want to fly a plane into a building than if he perceives his surroundings as hostile and unwelcoming. Maybe the ability to drive from here to there without the paranoia of being pulled over, maybe that comfort might stand in contrast to the anxiety of knowing that one is going to be a martyr.
I say we choose benevolence over rejection of our fellow human beings, otherwise we are the infidels they say we are.
Ok, so if there is nothing wrong with your delete key, then your hackjob with my qoutes was intentional, something which is against the rules here, I would assume.
And could you provide a cite that not knowing any illegal immigrants makes one ignorant ? I fail to see how associating with criminals and other deviants makes one ignorant, but I would love to hear the reasoning behind this.
Also, just who am I racially biased against, as you alleged ? I already stated I could care less what ethnicity the intruders have. Ship them out and send them back to where they belong.
Suppose a terrorist comes here with intent to be a suicide bomber. What’s more likely to deter that person, comfort or discomfort?
Nothing will deter a fanatical terrorist who comes here with the goal of slaughtering Americans. The 9-11 hijackers had it pretty comfortable, visiting stripjoints, drinking alcohol etc. That didn’t deter those suicidal maniacs from enacting out their perverse plans. The way to deal with suicide bombers is to capture/detain and/or kill them.
**I figure if a guy comes here, finds out that he can live quite comfortably, he’s less likely to want to fly a plane into a building than if he perceives his surroundings as hostile and unwelcoming. Maybe the ability to drive from here to there without the paranoia of being pulled over, maybe that comfort might stand in contrast to the anxiety of knowing that one is going to be a martyr. **
I figure, your hypothesis is absolutely wrong, and fairly naive may I add. Nothing we do will stop some murdering psychopaths, who wish to become martyrs, so that may gain their 72 virgins, and slaughter a whole bunch of infidels in the process. It’s either them or us, we are in the process of dealing with those maniacs.
I say we choose benevolence over rejection of our fellow human beings, otherwise we are the infidels they say we are.
I got news for you. We are the infidels, regardless of how we act, or what we do. And I thought this thread was mostly about Mexican illegal immigrants, you seem to have changed the subject over to muslims. Anyhow, one does not show kindness towards criminals or terrorists, as they percieve this as a sign of weakness. Just look at Israel.
I believe it was you that made the connection with terrorism.
Unless you think that it was Mexicans who were responsible for the WTC attack.
You need a cite proving that not knowing someone makes you ignorant of what that person is like? Either you have knowledge or you have ignorance. You, not having knowledge, well…
I didn’t say you were racially biased, I said your speech sounded like it.
Do you have a cite to prove that nothing will deter a suicide bomber?
“suicidal maniacs” is that a DSM diagnosis? what about “murdering psychopath?”
As a therapist I can tell you, from what I’ve read and heard about the terrorists (and suicide bombers in general) they’re quite sane. What on our side of the coin looks like insanity, on their side looks like heroism.
I believe I made no such connection, as you have qouted Susanann, and not Daisy Cutter.
And yes, I am aware, that the other side sees these murderers as heroes, that hardly changes anything though. They are wrong, and that is their problem.
And I am not a therapist, but it doesn’t take a genius to see that anybody who actually believes that they will receive a bunch of virgins, after slaughtering a bunch of innocents is acting in an irrational, mentally unstable way.
This is getting way off topic though, from the original debate. I don’t feel like discussing fanatical, massmurdering terrorists on this thread. I will continue that on another thread perhaps.
Well, in that case I take back my “No Problem” also.
The fact remains however, that you have deliberately misqouted me once in this thread, and you have attributed a qoute to me, which was written by somebody else.
That sombrero bit was meant more as a joke than anything else, but do you deny that granting more legitimacy to illegal aliens, will make it easier for terrorists to infiltrate our country ?
Would granting drivers licenses to illegals deter terrorists ? Would it make their job harder or easier ?
Anyhow, regardless of your answer to these questions, granting drivers licenses to illegals, and the effect on terrorists doesnt change my view on the situation at all. My view would be the same pre 9-11 or post 9-11. If something is wrong, than it is wrong.
