I didn’t misquote you, i omitted the parts I wasn’t addressing. I had a hard time taking your point seriously because you included maritans.
Sombreros as a joke, well, ok, another reason to believe that 1) you shouldn’t be take seriously, and/or 2) you don’t mind using stereotypes of people for your amusement.
I really don’t think that california passing this law will have any effect on terrorism at all. To use terrorism as a reason not to allow illegal immigrants to get driver’s licenses is a bit paranoid.
If something is wrong then it’s wrong?
OOOOOOOH, now I get it.
There’s absolute right and wrong. uh-huh, hmmmm. yeah, you’re right, no use arguing with you.
And Bill Clinton never inhaled, nor did he ever have sexual relations with that woman. :wally
A misquote is a incorrect quotation made by somebody, which is exactly what you are guilty of. You didn’t leave out a sentence or two from a paragraph, but you went in and mutilated a single sentence of mine, deleting certain words to fit your agenda.
And using the word Sombrero to associate something being Mexican is hardly a stereotype.
A large straw or felt hat with a broad brim and tall crown, worn especially in Mexico and the American Southwest.
What’s with all this politically correct nonsense ?
And no, not every situation is black or white, but I hardly see any Grey, on the issue of unresponsible,illegal, criminal lawbreakers being allowed to wreak havoc on our roads.
And you’re absolutely right, there probably is not much more to debate, as this silly bill will most likely be repelled soon, if and when the right person wins the re-election in the economically devestated state known as california.
Chalk me up as one who is anti-ILLEGAL immigration but pro immigration in general. I’ve thought about it and here is something you almost never hear about, illegal immigration is bad for immigration. Every person who crosses our border and comes here illegaly to make a life for themselves makes it that much harder for some other deserving person to come to this country legally from all over the world. If we didn’t have such a problem with the number of illegal aliens crossing over every year, we might be more open to allowing more and different kinds of legal immigration. It’s hard to justify granting a couple hundred thousand more refugee and asylum visas when you already have millions of undocumented workers taking up jobs and government resources as is. Another result is a growing lack of diversity and contact with the greater world. One of the best sources of positive PR our country gets is from our immigrants, it’s harder to hate america when you have an uncle and three cousins who write to you about how great it is and send you money from there. We already have fairly good relations with Mexico, how about accepting some people from other parts of the world? We need to MANAGE our immigration better and stop the tide of illegal immigration we have been getting for the good of our country.
Even too much legal immigration may be too much. How many people do you think the United States can support in terms of physical resources? Every year the spectre of drought seems to be abroad some major region of the country, and we have a hard enough time finding enough water for the people who are here now. How much more unreliable, or expensive, do we want our electric power systems to be? How many more roads, housing developments, and 100-mile commuters can we accommodate? Should not the people who are already here have some say in the quality of life for themselves and their children?
No other country in the developed world is asked, or expected, to be as accommodating as the U.S.
Uh, well Im not really sure what the heck youre talking about, since any mexican, illegal or not, can legally drive in any state simply by getting their international liscence. All states honor foreign drivers liscences for the same amount of time they honor out of state liscences. Usually you can drive for up to 90 days on a foreign/out of state liscence if youre a new resident, some places longer, some places less.
As for getting liscences in other states, well if a state allows you to get a liscence without a test simply by handing in your old states liscence, then that seems to be a problem with that state. Many states require you to take the full test anyway regardless of whether you have a liscence in another state. If Nevada is different, thats Nevadas problem.
As for everything else in your post; voting, buying guns, etc; a drivers liscence was never meant to be proof of citizenship, thats what passports are for. If the state you live in has been silly enough to pass laws allowing people to vote or own guns based on their drivers liscence, again thats a problem with the short sightedness of the laws of that state.
Funnily enough, the federal paperwork we all fill out when we get a job does not recognize a drivers liscence as proof of citizenship. To establish that, you have to show a birth cert, passport, or some other document that legally entitles you to be here. THEN you have to show a drivers liscence or ID card or whatever (two pieces of ID) to prove that that is actually you.
So again, if a particular state uses drivers liscences as proof of citizenship, that just tells me that the lawmakers in that state are rather stupid. It would be silly for the rest of us to modify how we do things just to accomodate idiots.
More importantly, please cite, where in our constitution are those rights withdrawn/not recognized/denied? After all, any rights not so enumerated are reserved to the states and the people respectively.
Or are you saying that if a right isnt specifically granted in the constitution, no one has it?
If you are going to tell lies about my postings, try to show some imagination. I was merely addressing your asinine suggestion that other states ignore the provision of the Constitution and go ahead and treat California like it’s not part of this country.
But, go ahead. Feel free to continue to pretend (a) that you know what you’re talking about, and (b) that I said something I certainly did not say.
We HAVE immigration laws ??? C’mon now , laws are meant to be enforced aren’t they ? When the families of illegals can sue our country for not having water stations for them in the desert, there’s something horrily wrong here. All illegal immigrants should be deported immediately upon discovery and any US citizen aiding them, hiring them, or harboring them should be fined. Come into the country the lawful way or no way at all.
Does that include tipping 15% at a restaurant knowing that the busboy might get part of it?
What about giving a contracting job to the lowest bidder?
Buying lettuce without first ensuring that it was picked by someone with citizenship?
It’s slightly more complicated than you make it sound.
undocumented people are a vital part of our economy, they provide exploitable labor for substandard wages. They don’t have mandatory health care, cobra coverage, disability, etc. In the absence of slavery, this is the next best thing. We in turn pay less for the things that make us comfortable.
Our system functions the way it does because it works. Generally speaking, if an illegal alien is suspected of criminal activity, he is sought and deported. If a person is generally abiding by the laws of the country and providing cheap labor, he and his family is allowed to participate in our society with relatively little hinderance as a second class citizen. That person’s next generation is generally allowed to become a fully functioning member of our society. It’s the american dream.
But that’s completely beside the point.
I still maintain that them being able to get driver’s licenses makes them more responsible and more accountable. I would add to that, more healthy.
OK, here is the real problem, and it ain’t with “undocumented mexican immigrants” getting their drivers license. :rolleyes:
ANYONE, even Osama bin Laden himself, can walk into any IRS office, and with pretty well any flimsy piece of documentation- get an “ITIN”. And, all that CA will require for an IDENTIFICATION CARD is that ITIN and that same worthless scrap of paper. ITIN’s are NOT for “identification” they are simply a number assigned so that you can file a tax return. It is not too hard to get several. The Feds have warned CA about this.
I don’t care all that much about “illegal aliens” driving with or without a drivers license. Or whether or not those “undocumented mexican workers” should be here or not. Well- yes, I DO care, but I have conflicting opinions.
But once they have a ITIN and that scrap- they can get a valid ID card, which is good for getting any other ID cars in pretty well any other State. They do NOT have to be “Mexican” to get one, or even an “undocumented alien”. Sure- MOST of the dudes that will benefit are Mexican Nationals that are here in this State without a Green card. And, sure- most of them are not any security risk (altho Mexico does have some terrorism and drug crime, you know…). I am not all that worried abot “Jose’ Farmworker” getting one of these- but I am worried about “Jose the Boss of the drug cartel” or “Osama the Terrorist” getting one of these- and there are NO decent security assurances set up so that these other two bad dudes can’t get one- while of course 10’s of thousands of the first example will be getting theirs.
I haven’t noticed anyone posting any evidence that the ability to get a drivers license will increase the rate of illegal immigration. I also haven’t noticed anyone posting evidence that large numbers of illegals are being detected now because they don’t have licenses.
I do know that any accident unlicensed drivers get into with an insured driver, that gets reported, will be covered by uninsured motorists coverage. If illegals get licenses they will have to buy insurance, which will make the premiums I pay for uninsured motorists coverage decrease. As long as they’re here, and they’re driving, let’s make them pay their way.
I do wonder how many are going to go into a government office and register, though.
BTW, if IIRC, Davis vetoed this bill twice before. Maybe he signed it this time for the votes, maybe to agree to the will of the duly constitued legislature of the state.
What the heck, Voyager? The Governor is not the slave of the “duly constitu[t]ed legislature.” He is the duly elected Governor of the State of California.
Never in this thread did I say Mexicans! Or Terriorists!
Why is it that most of this thread is about Mexicans
and terriorists? Is it that most of the offeders of illegal
immigation are from Mexico? Or possibily that people from
Muslim countries will use driver’s licence’s to aid them in
their next attack?
Native born american women have had a negative population growth since 1970, we have done an extremely good job with the zero population growth movement. All of the increase in our population, all of the increase in traffic, is due to immigration.
At current rates of immigration, the United States will have 400 billion people by 2050, and a billion people living here by the end of the century. Say goodbye to forests and wild lands, and get used to traffic jams.
GOP lawmakers seek to invalidate drivers license Thirty-eight Republican members of the California Legislature have signed a letter asking United States Attorney General John Ashcroft to invalidate the California driver’s license as “a reliable and acceptable†form of identification and documentation. The letter comes as Republicans seek to block through a referendum SB 60, which would give illegal immigrants the right to obtain driver’s licenses in California. The bill, signed by Gov. Gray Davis last week, will become law Jan. 1 unless opponents gather more than 400,000 valid signatures in 90 days, which would trigger an election to decide the measure’s fate. The action the Republicans are seeking would make the California driver’s license invalid as identification at the nation’s airports, presumably forcing Californians who want to fly to use a passport as their ID at the security gate. Californians without a passport would be out of luck.
“Our attempts to ensure the security of the California Drivers License have fallen upon deaf ears in the California Legislature and we now are concerned that terrorists or other criminals may legally obtain a California divers license with the intent to use the document to assist them in terrorist or criminal acts against the United States,” said the letter, which was circulated by Assemblyman Russ Bogh.