This long conversation got going about driving, cars and other vehicles.
Open Container laws also in here.
Sure but you’ll find very few Tesla owners, in particular here, who respect Musk or believe a thing he says. The same goes for the very active Tesla fora on reddit (excepting maybe the cybertruck one which had to be made private because it was trolled so hard). Like do the equivalent of separate the art from the artist when discussing the tech. It’s the constant posting of shit that is objectively false that annoys me.
Yeah, for a while, /r/cyberstuck was in my feed quite a bit, but the trolling was so bad on that sub even though it was already a shitposting sub that they had to make a rule that the posts had to be about cybertrucks that were damaged or “stuck” as it were and not just ugly or controversial ones.
ISTM they have a doctrinal belief that all automobiles are a devil’s invention that should be banned. On ecological grounds, safety grounds, and how they distort the design of cities grounds. IOW “If you can’t walk there or take a tram there, you have no business wanting to go there.”
I wonder if a bad driver killed someone close to them.
So of course US car culture, and especially pickup truck culture, resulting suburban to rural sprawl, and performance car culture all offend them to their very core.
It’s difficult to discuss, because that distinction doesn’t exist in the same way as with art.
Both these statements can be objectively true: Tesla FSD is amazing technology and has the potential to change the world positively. Tesla the company (and Musk) is rolling out this technology in dangerous ways driven by ideology and stock price demands.
It’s fair to push back against objectively false information. But it’s not fair to say that those who complain about Tesla are driven solely by their hatred of Musk. He is driving the direction and implementation of this technology, so the two are intrinsically linked.
That’s all true and I think that we are in agreement. I certainly don’t think that people who dislike the tech are all just Musk haters. There are plenty of valid complaints and there have been some great discussions and not just limited to FSD.
There have also been people who are too fucking stupid to realize that the windshield wiper controls are in the same exact place as every other car or make the claim FSD is “killing people” at a rate orders of magnitude greater than regular driving.
Also, they really hate all AI.
Yup, we agree. Well, I’m sure we disagree on specific points about that tech, but that’s OK. FWIW, I appreciate your posts on AVs and Tesla, and I think you’re one of the more objective posters about a topic it’s really tough to be objective about.
The respect is very mutual.
-smells the air of mutual respect and reasonable disagreement-
Ah, that’s the stuff. Bracing!
I agree with this idea in principle. I don’t like driving, I never have. It probably comes from the fact that when I was in high school, and enrolled in a driving class, my parents were paranoid about letting me drive their car. They were convinced that their insurance didn’t cover it. Which I’m sure is paranoid bullshit, but my parents were frequently idiots, often at my expense.
Anyway, that meant I could not practice at home like everyone else, and every time I was given a test I had to wing it because I hadn’t practiced, and often was doing whatever maneuver for the first time as part of the test. (Why my parents insisted I take this class and then not let me practice, I don’t know, just file it reason number 4,678 why they were shitty parents.) Anyway, somehow I actually got through that class and passed. But it was a nerve-wracking experience, and even after more than 30 years of driving a car almost every day, I still see driving as an unenjoyable, necessary evil.
So I’d love to not drive places. But I have to, because I need to go to places that I can only reach by car. And I don’t see a reasonable alternative to that, so we are going to have cars for the foreseeable future. If someone wants to constantly rant and go off about that, tough shit, your desires are in conflict with reality, so get over it.
I despise driving. I also have never been a drinker so I am often the designated driver. In addition my hobby is live music (three shows a week on average) and that takes me from Santa Barbara to LA a couple of times a month. FSD has been a godsend and has dramatically improved my life. You better believe that I am paying attention the whole time but it is, for me, a small fraction of the mental effort as regular driving.
I have no idea where the tech will end up but it is a certainty that it will improve dramatically over the next ten to twenty years and that will give elderly and disabled people significantly more freedom and less reliance on others. We can reasonably disagree on how good it is currently but to completely disparage the tech is insane.
I hate driving too. It often makes me a nervous wreck. That’s a task I’d off-load if I could. Though I would prefer public transportation infrastructure and being able to walk to my job and that sort of thing. But in the absence of that, yes, let a machine drive.
I guess I’m assuming it’s loads safer. Probably safer than me. I’m a cautious driver but I have attention lapses and I presume an automated vehicle wouldn’t.
Intuitively to me it seems significantly safer but it’s difficult to find data that’s trustworthy. It either comes from Tesla itself or bullshit hysteria from plaintiff’s attorneys or tech bloggers who are fanboys or other tech bloggers who are haters.
I like what techy things do. I’m not adept at using them. (But dammit, give me some written instructions and I can follow it.).
Driving needs are just that “needs” in my life.
I believe with the state of oil prices now, driving for funzies is on hold.
Still, to each his own.
Self driving cars are coming to be more and more. Just gotta deal.
(Hey, where’s my jetpack the Jetsons said I would have by this time? 
)
My self driving car doesn’t use gasoline or get oil changes. 
I would rather have the flying cars they showed and even more so, Rosie the Robot to clean the house.
I’d like to know stats on how much energy is consumed building the things and arming them with all that tech.
Don’t data centers use extensive water and power?