He can get busted if he uses any pot at all regardless of whether he gets the job or not. And pre-employment urine drug testing results are not used to prosecute people.
Busted, at work, if he does get the job. I didn’t say anything about legal prosecution.
Man N. Cognito, my point is that it’s not worth the effort of worrying over tests. If you do get the job, leave prohibited substances alone. That is much easier than trying to beat the tests.
excuse my ignorance, and please fight it as applicable, but wouldn’t their be some value to flooding your system with water, not because it cleans you out, but because the urine tested would contain more water than urine?
I don’t quite follow this. We’ve got a doctor here saying that forced hydration won’t dilute urine enough to pass a test for THC. Personal experience tells me otherwise. For the record, I indulge regularly. At Motorola, when they popped me for a random, I had smoked a fat j of some kind at 7 am that morning. I ended up peeing at about 10:30pm and passing. This was after drinking about a gallon’s worth of water. THC was one of the things that they tested for. I know because friends of mine got nailed for it. More recently, I had to pee for a job I applied for. They gave me the quick test for 5 things, PCP, THC, Cocaine, Amphetamines and Opiates. I employed the same strategy of drinking a buttload of water and passed. This test was done right in front of me. I saw the test strip being used. Qadgop, how could I have passed these tests if not for diluting my urine with all that water? Just curious as to the medical reasons a regular user would test negative every time if drinking water isn’t what makes the difference. It can’t be that they weren’t testing for THC as I watched them do it on at least one occasion.
Urine is mostly water. Trying to dilute urine by forcing fluids may dilute the concentration of the drug in the urine, but it does not wash it out any faster. The substance can still be found in the urine, and very dilute urine will trigger an alarm that the urine may be tampered with, or that the specimen provider is trying to beat the test. A re-test may be required, or the employer may just choose not to bother with employing someone who’s test result was questionable.
disrup, it sounds like they’re just using a cheap test, and you were lucky. Some places don’t bother questioning dilute urine at all, they just want it recorded on paper that a person tested negative.
There are many tests available, of varying degrees of specificity and selectivity. Of course, more precision costs more money.
Feel free to play the odds as long as you like, but eventually the odds will run against you.
THC is soluble in alcohol, so the “flushing” attempt may work better with vodka than it would with water… Of course, this may present problems of its own-- Even if your potential employer considers it acceptable for you to consume alcohol in your free time, they may look askance at someone who presents for a pee test with a wretched hangover. Then again, who can say?
This is why I sometimes love this place. Potheads arguing with a girl who did this for a living and a physician!
I don’t know about paper “litmus” strips, as my company has an absolute zero tolerance policy and uses gas chromatography for initial screenings. I’ve used gas chromatography (not on urine) so I know what can be seen (everything). So I stay away from stuff.
An employer requesting a urine sample for a drug test has to, by law, inform you of what they are testing for if you ask them. My company tests for THC, opiates, amphetamines, and something else that I can’t recall at the moment. If this was truly your first time ever smoking pot, and you only took two hits, I’m pretty confident that you’ll be fine. Most companies stick to federal levels, and after 5 days, two puffs shouldn’t show up on the report.
The standard test checks for the NIDA 5. which are Cannabinoids, opiates, amphetamines, cocaine and PCP.
This is the best drug testing FAQ I’ve seen online. It describes several different kinds of tests and tells why many of the commonly-used methods of beating drug tests don’t work at all.
Do you want the legal liability of hiring an alcoholic or someone who works three jobs and has trouble staying awake at his post? Nobody tests for that.
The drug tests take people who only smoke pot on weekends, unfairly label them as irresponsible, and send them off to unneeded treatment or just fire them outright. Meanwhile the guy who is drunk all day every day except the one day he takes the test (assuming they’re even testing for alcohol at all, which they usually don’t) gets to keep his job. That’s just not right.
mangeorge is right on. Impairment testing is the only reasonably fair solution.
::::This is why I sometimes love this place. Potheads arguing with a girl who did this for a living and a physician!::::
Actually, I’m a college educated adult who ocassionally smokes pot. I’m not saying it’s good for you, but it’s certainly less damaging, in many respects, than alcohol. Remember, prohibition was just a part of the “war on drugs” that failed…
::::Urine is mostly water. Trying to dilute urine by forcing fluids may dilute the concentration of the drug in the urine, but it does not wash it out any faster::::
That’s exactly what I was going for my drinking lots of water. I think I may have explained it improperly before…I wasn’t trying to clean out my sytem, I was simply trying to make any traces of the drug to be as diluted as possible. There are guidelines as to what level of the drug you need to have to fail the test. A very sensitive test, from what I understand, could detect a person had been exposed to marijuna through second-hand smoke, but the trace amounts would be so low that they could almost never be confused with that of a smoker. And, of course, if the urine was very watery, they’ll ask for another test. That would be on Tuesday or later, and the THC should almost certainly have left my system by then, considering how litttle I smoked. (I don’t think a place will consider watery urine an automatic tell-tale sign of drug use…I used to drink lots of water for health reasons…I had to stop because I had to pee every 20 minutes, and I’m sure that urine was almost 100% water!)
My first comment was not directed towards you but the other folks that seemed to “know” more than professionals in the subject at hand.
I’m not saying pot is better or worse than booze, but at this moment, booze is legal, pot isn’t. Right or wrong, that’s how it is. But in most companies, after the initial screening, they cannot test you without reasonable suspicion. Subjective yes, but it costs them money, in my company, about 60 bucks a pop. And last month, a guy got fired for being under the influence of alcohol. First time offense but someone noticed that he wasn’t quite right and after a quick test, he was exactly at .08 BAC. He was gone on the spot. I’m not saying that this is how it is with all work environments, but in the ones I’ve been used to, it is. If it is in your system at the time of testing, then you can arguably be under the influence, whether it stays in your body a day or a month.
Back in '95, I took a psychology course, and in our textbook under a chapter detailing the effects of various drugs on the brain, I read that THC in chronic users can be detectable up to SIX MONTHS later.
Unfortunetly I do not recall the name of the book, but given the answers posted here does this just sound like a case of ‘reefer madness’?
I hope the following can add some clarification about the different types of drug/urine tests.
The “test strips” that have been mentioned are the least sensitive of tests (also the cheapest - back in the mid-80’s we’d buy them in bulk for about $10-15 each). They are least likely to generate a false positive (meaning - if it says “yes” it is almost certainly “YES!”) and most likely to generate a false negative (meaning that some users will slip through). There has to be a minimum level of the substance in the urine (which should eliminate second hand smoke levels) and the strip has to be in good condition (intense heat, spills of other liquids, and such can all render them useless). It can’t detect dilute urine. It’s the only test where urine dilution has a chance of working. That might benefit our “two-toke” friend in the OP, but if you sucked down a lid of your favorite leaf it will still almost certainly pick that up. They do have the advantage of on the spot results.
The next step up is the sort of urine test where the sample is sent off to a lab. Back when I was in the business these were about $25 each and tested for a range of things - THC, opiates, benzodiazepines, alcohol, PCP… THIS test will catch dilute urine. Some places will then ask for a retest, others will test the same sample with gas chromotography. The agency doing the testing will have one of three reactions to a “dilute urine” result:
- Fire you
- ask for a retest. Since this is a couple days later, it might allow casual users to sneak under the wire, but don’t make a habit of this
- get the chromotography test.
Gas chromotography started at about $125 a throw in the mid-80’s and went up from there. You can’t cheat on this test. We had a couple of “clients” hauled off to the hospital due to water intoxication or kidney failure resulting from attempts at fluid flushes with either plain water or goldenseal. We STILL detected drugs in their urine with the gas chromtography. (Yes, too much goldenseal is bad for your kidneys. If you’re doing drugs regularly there’s a good chance your kidneys aren’t happy anyway) The high price of this test keeps it from being used all the time (lucky for some of you folks)
Now, for what, exactly, these tests look for - usually it’s “metabolites” of a drug and not the actual drug itself. I mean really, if opiates or THC actually exited the body in their active forms we’d have junkies drinking each other’s urine, but they don’t because you can’t get high off it. So, when someone says “This drug test looks for THC” what they’re really saying is that it picks up the chemical breakdown products generated by your body when “using” the drug. And yes, in some instances it might pick up the actual drug - alcohol, I believe, can be detect as alcohol as well as a metabolite but don’t quote me on that… it’s been 15 years now, so some of the details are getting fuzzy.
And that’s why the drug tests can “find” the drugs even after you stop being “high”. The body may deactivate the actual THC in a few hours, but the chemical processing continues after that, and it’s the result of THOSE processes that show up in the tests. Meaning if you toke a minute and a half before taking your pee it won’t show up - because there hasn’t been enough time for the drug to be processed. The urine sitting in your bladder at that point is “clean” because it was processed before you took the drug.
Then, with items that store in body fat like THC (which is NOT stored in the muscles, as one poster mentioned) the various metabolites trickle out over a longer period of time. If you’re smoking pot regularly AND losing weight you’re MORE likely to show up positive because the utilization of fat releases more the metabolites into the blood stream. On the flip side, increasing body fat would have the opposite effect - but unlikely enough to get you past a drug test. Not to mention the complications of corpulent obesity on your life in general.
Anyhow - those metabolites are what cause “false positive” troubles. Now, false positives are rare - really they are - but they can happen because a different substance may have a similar or identical breakdown product. For this reason, MOST (but not all) drug testers, on getting a positive, either retest the sample to make sure or go to gas chromotography (which can distinguish these things if it’s related-but-different metabolites). And MOST, but not all, drug testers ask you to list any prescription or over-the-counter drugs you have taken within a certain time period. As I mentioned, the dextramethoraphn in Nyquil CAN generate a false positive - for PCP. Why, I don’t know, but it can. There’s a list of other stuff, including some antibiotics, that can do the same. (No, I’m not going to list them.)
There is one other thing that can trip you up because it’s not a false positive but a true positive from an innocent source. And that’s poppy seeds. Poppy seeds DO contain trace amounts of opium. I don’t think it’s physically possible to consume enough of them to actually get high, but they CAN trigger a positive on some drug tests. Partly, it depends on quantity. Here in Chicago there are a few Eastern Europe bakeries that make a delicious poppy cake/bread product that will trigger a positive on a $25 test, and even a poppy seed bagel or hot dog bun will trigger a positive on a gas chromotography test. (When this was confirmed, our clientele successfully lobbied a local hot dog vendor to switch to seedless buns. And another contingent started claiming bun consumption - we told 'em tough, lose the buns or switch to seedless). Now, if the outfit you’re dealing with is INTELLIGENT they will also be able to determine that the amounts you’re dealing with are so low that it’s more consistent with hot dog buns than IV drug use, but if you’re dealing with “zero tolerance” types you’re screwed. Hence, my earlier suggestion to simply avoid the poppy-seed products if drug testing is a concern.
And yes, some employers DO test for alcohol as well as the other common drugs in urine tests - which can pick up alcohol use even after you’ve stopped being drunk or hung over (up to three days). And some employers treat dilute urine the same as a positive - at least one airline will fire you for a too-dilute sample with no additional “evidence” of drug use required. The assumption, of course, being that you are trying to cheat.
Another reason some folks can “cheat” on urine tests is that sometimes they’re not testing for drugs but something else. The one that comes to mind is the FAA urine test required on flight physicals. They aren’t testing for drugs at all on that one, they’re testing for diabetes and excess protein in the urine. In which case you probably could snort coke, smoke dope, and swallow demerol beforehand and still “pass” because that test isn’t looking for what you think it is. (Mind you, I don’t encourage that sort of behavior in anyone, much less a pilot)
As for my personal views… if what you do doesn’t hurt you or anyone else I don’t feel it’s my business. Toke in your backyard? I don’t care. Toke and drive - I care very much and have zero mercy. Ditto for drinking alcohol and consuming anything else. I got into the rehab business in part because I think people with a problem should be helped, and I don’t feel jail alone helps someone with a drug addiction (as distinguished from causual and non-addicted use). I still believe that, even more strongly. But, as I said, I have no mercy for those who mess with their minds then put others at risk by driving a car (or piloting a plane), or steal to support their habit, or otherwise cause problems for the rest of us.
The poppy seed thing is near and dear to me. I’ve tested false positive twice, once from eating a bagel and once from lemon poppy seed cake. Both times they ran the expensive test, and made me swear it was from seeds. No big thing, but kinda silly imo.
But, the nurse said they were considering if they should forbid poppy seed products for employees, because of the extra cost of the tests. Never did, though. Probably checked with the lawyers. 
Drug tests don’t test for THC. They test for THC metabolites, which are the products the body produces when it processes the THC. These are fat soluble, and thus can stay in the body for some time. All drug tests test for pot; its the easiest thing to test for, and most other drugs are gone within a day or three. Thus, serious drug users can avoid detection much easier than the weekend pot-smoker. Not a good situation, if harm reduction (and worker productivity) are the true goals.
Yeah, but most corporations aren’t doing it to protect the public. They do it because of incentives offered by insurers, generally by way of the government, I believe. Sure, some industries can claim the need for drug testing (the military, for instance, can do whatever the hell it wants), but does Sam Goody really need to test me for pot before they give me a job as a sales clerk? What, possibly, could that lead to? Improper music recommendations?
I think you’d be correct on this. Obviously, there’s a certain threshold at which the test is considered “positive”. Everyone knows that when you drink large quantities of liquid, your urine becomes more dillute. Therefore, rationally, you’ve obviously got lower levels of drug metabolites present in your urine stream. Obviously, they try detect for this by checking various levels (I’ve heard of creatine levels, for instance) to make sure the stream isn’t too dillute. However, a dilluted stream isn’t a positive result; in theory, they could then call you back in for a retest, at which time you’d be clean. Or, they could send it off, as QtM suggested, for chromatography…but I’d suspect this is pretty expensive, and your run-of-the-mill corporate tester might not employ this method.
The company I work for hasn’t shown any increase in productivity or safety since they began testing over ten years ago.
Let me put that another way
They haven’t been able to show any direct financial payback for a pretty expensive program in more than ten years.
Who can blame them for sticking with the cheaper method.
This site will sell you $12 test strips that test for 10 drugs. Pot-only strips are $1.75. The 10 drugs are :
Tricyclic Antidepressants? Why do they test for those?