Druggies

In My Humble Opinion
21

Wait. Please explain if you are labeling THC or alcohol as the “harmful chemical”, and if you are referring to THC, please provide proof that it is in the least bit harmful.

I find it very hard to understand the experiences of a person who has been in outer space, but that’s because I’m not familiar with the context of their experiences, not because their experiences didn’t happen.

My grades, first semester, last year, no drugs or alcohol consumed on a regular basis: 1.48 GPA, 2.54 CUM. My grades, second semester, last year, 1/4oz a day habit: 3.0 GPA, 2.xx CUM. What changed between the two? The marijuana use. Marijuana use, in no uncertain terms, makes me smarter, more open minded, and more able to absorb and retain information. While correlation != causation, and my grades aren’t the best example, you may rest assured that in my case, this is true. I cannot speak for others.

Drugs that are legal that are physically addictive, for all you addiction freaks:

Alcohol
Caffiene
Nicotine
Multitudes of opiate derivatives
Sugar
Fats
Proteins
Fibers
Vitamins
Minerals
Food

Just because you don’t agree with the usage of a chemical doesn’t make the usage inherently wrong. Thar lies madness.

What if we legalize marijuana usage and studies done after it’s legalized show that marijuana stabilizes manic depressives (I had no manic depressive episodes during my moderate marijuana usage days, and have had them before and since stopping regular use), or that marijuana usage allows a greater rate of learning and information retention, or one of a bajillion other heretofore unknown interactions or reactions or what the fuck ever? Sure, it’s a long shot, a huge long shot, but how the hell will we ever know if we don’t study it and simply reject it’s usage out of hand? I doubt of it’s been used for thousands and thousands of years just because “you can get really high”.

–Tim

22

Hey, here’s an idea: Check out these 800,000 sites and report your findings: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=alcohol+death&btnG=Google+Search and http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=thc+death

Then come back and I’ll give you another list.

There is no way to describe that statement except plain fucking stupid. Go find me even one reasonable scientist who recommends that we start giving children a 1/4 oz of pot a day to make them smarter. Just one.

23

I’ve been smoking pot since I was 11, getting drunk since I was 15, and had done some of about everything else by the time I was 20, and I think I turned out OK. I don’t do as much as I did when I was younger, but I still smoke pot fairly regularly and do other drugs occasionally. I’m 28, happily married, and make around $60K a year. Telling teenagers that everyone who does drugs is going to end up fucked up is stupid because chances are they know people like me and realize it’s bullshit, and disregard any other warning about drugs you might make. Best you can do is warn them of the real dangers, let them know what addiction is like and hope they are smart enough to recognize it when they see it (they will) and wise enough to avoid it themselves.

24

Homer:

Err…Why not?

Now don’t get me wrong - I generally lean in the pro-legalization direction. While it’s undeniably harmful on some levels, I regard it as less so than, say, alcohol, or my current diet :wink: . I smoked plenty of pot as a youngster ( though never quite to the level of daily ) and don’t think of myself as particularly impaired. And I have indeed known everyday smokers ( generally of the “one joint after work or before bed” variety ) that were perfectly sane and productive ( and just be even-handed, I’ve also known many that were worthless lumps ). Personally, I don’t indulge anymore because of declining interest in the effect and enlightened self-interest ( government job, don’t ya know :smiley: ). But I’m not anti-marijuana by any means.

But I accept the principle that the search for pleasurable sensations is a mighty powerful one and I don’t see any reason why something might not be used for “thousands and thousands of years” simply because it made people feel better in some fashion. No doubt one could ascribe medicinal value ( pain ameliorater ) or spiritual ( altered states of consciousness giving an impression of communing with the divine ). But simple pleasure and relief from ennui ( or misery ) can be a strong motivator in of itself. As can addiction to those pleasurable sensations. There needn’t be any more profound explanation that that.

  • Tamerlane
25

I have two things to say about that. First of all, this discussion seems to be mainly about pot. In that case you kind of skew it for people too lazy to click on the link because over 760,000 of those results are for alcohol. Secondly, did you actually check the google search on THC? The results are almost entirely about some band called T.H.C. or about THC treated rats having cancerous tumors shrunk and living after the death of untreated rats. So it appears there is no evidence there that THC is harmful as you were trying to prove.

26

Oh dear, how boring, where did I say this ?

…and where did I say that Cannbis was addictive ?

Absolutely nowhere, and these are the tactics of drug apologists everywhere, take a statement by someone who says - go ahead do whatever drugs you want but take the responsibility for it without dragging others down with you if things go wrong - then find meanings and statements that are simply not there, and then continue to preach on about how ignorant everyone is about the subject and the speaker is so wonderfully knowledgable.

Add in a few comments about how your individuality is being crushed as well, if you need drugs to pretend you are so individual I might suggest that you are missing the point, but it’s your choice either way.

I knew all this would happen, like night follows day, it is so predictable, users think in very obvious ways, the only differance is in the scale of what they do.

Being ratty is not withdrawal, it means being a little bit snippy, a tad bad-tempered perhaps, and sorry to point it out but, its something I’ve observed both in prisoners, and those I know elswhere who smoke and take Cannabis.

Yeah they user often cannot see themselves from the outside, if I run short of sleep I get ratty and don’t notice it until someone points it out to me. I hardly think this is hype.

Oh do behave children!!

You are saying that essential components of diet, necessary for the maintenance of life, are addictive chemicals.
I will not dignify this with further comment.

Since this was an analogy used as some kind of criticism of the points I have made I will respond to this, drugs and racism are completely separate issues and have sod all to connect each other, do not use such offensive arguments in the future please, the intention of this is simply to attempt to tar my points with the blackest filth that you can find.
As someine who grew up in the 60’s as a half-race child in state care I encountered a great deal of racist abuse and grew up fighting as a result.

Pack it in, or take it to the pit where I can respond in offensive kind.

If you think that statements I have made are lies or stereotypes this forum should be used to point out what those are, not to simply smear by association with false analogy.

I do notice how all the Cannabis users here are such responsible, well-balanced intelligent individuals, I also notice that one or two have said that in the persuit of certain intellectual excercises that Cannabis hampers them which in turn gave them a choice.

You have a choice, if use drugs and keep control, no problem, but if you decide to reach beyond your own personal control resources and end up in jail I’ll be there to stick all the bits together - if I can.

I will never be out of work, you could interpret that as a comment on human frailty(any way you wish), desires outstripping abilites, whatever you want, prisons are full and likely to remain so.

27

Pfft. I know that alcohol is bad, mmkay. Please inform me as to the LD50 for THC. Oh, wait, it’s so high you’d have to ingest like 40 lbs of pure THC! Silly fuckin’ me.

Did I suggest giving pot to kids? Hell no. Bad idea.

Did I suggest everyone smoke 1/4 oz a day? Hell no. Bad idea.

But… it helps me. I don’t have manic depressive episodes. I don’t stop eating randomly (heh heh go figure that one). I absorb and retain information tons better! I understand things, fundamental things, about people, about behavior, about the world, that I never would have understood without pot. I know things, things that are incredibly complex, things that are very, very, very complicated, and they all “came to me” while I was high. I understand extremely complicated physical theories and I have expounded on them because of my “nasty little habit.” Things that people have studied and researched for years, Bill, things that people devote their entire lives to, have just Poof! occured to me while I was high. How can you say that’s bad? How can you claim a drug which has enlightened me to so many myriad things is bad? How can you claim that something that has allowed me to pull incredible amounts of knowledge out of mid-air is bad? How can that be bad?

Dude, I can prove my argument by both direct testimony, proof, whatever. Just ask. Fuck, man, I figured out how to approximate a 4D environment in 2D while high. I figured out shit about tensors and space-time interactions and shit while I was high. When I get high, I concentrate on a single subject. Perhaps this time it’s physics. Perhaps next time it’ll be biblical theory, or history, or whatever. I sit and think and ponder and roll it over in my mind and connections start clicking, information I already have gets massively extrapolated and interconnected to other information, and when I check it out online later, it’s all right! All this stuff that I’ve “made up” is all correct and proven!

casdave: You are right. There are withdrawl symptoms for some. I don’t even think about marijuana if I don’t have access, it’s just a closed door that doesn’t even bother me. But once I get high, its like, “Hey, thanks for getting yourself high again, Tim, I enjoy thinking this deeply and complexly. I wonder what wonderful new things we’ll learn and imagine this time around, eh, chap?” And that’s it! I do it because I like it! If I can’t do it, no loss. None. It doesn’t bother me.

I have a friend, however, who worries himself to death when he can’t get it. He’ll smoke ashes and tar to get high. He’s not addicted, he’s just used to being high. He doesn’t have to get high, but he’s so used to being high it’s just… difficult… the first few days he can’t get high.

As for responsibility, you’re right. If you’re going to do something that’s possibly harmful or dangerous, its your own fault if you get hurt or die. Not societies. Not your parents. Your own. You must take responsibility for your own actions.

Why not? You can’t live without them, and bad things happen when you go through withdrawl from them!

Seriously, though, I’m just pointing out that things that we use every day are addictive when taken in high quantities. We eat way too many fats, carbs, and sugars. They make us horridly obese. They tax medical insurance to it’s limit for some people. But are they illegal? No. Obesity is often a choice, and a choice that is dangerous and harmful to the obese person. But do we outlaw obesity? No. We work with it. Laws that make 1/4 of your population criminals when they are not harming anyone are nonsensical!

SHUSH! I’m presenting an informal argument here, eh!!!

–Tim

28

^^^CAUTION! MAJOR POT-HEAD FREAK-OUT AND BEHAVIOR RATIONALIZATION ABOVE! COVER THE EYES OF YOUR CHILDREN!^^^^^^

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

29

Thank you for saying that!!! I just feel good that someone understands my stance on things how i feel.

And i’m responsible with my drug use. I make sure im around people who are sober and can help me, and im around people i know and love. If i get in trouble they can help me. People who wrecklessly use drugs shouldn’t be using them.

30

Spooje meekly raises his hand to be counted.

Funny thing is, were it not for dope, I probably would’ve blown my head off in Jr High. Because of dope, I nearly did blow my head off in my early twenties. Go figure.

31

As a former (and current though much less so)pothead who has used and loved many drugs habitually for long periods of time, and who currently smokes just a tiny bit every night before bedtime, and who is very pro-legalization of marijuana as well as various other drugs, can I just ask that you all pipe down and listen to casdave. All your ridiculously extreme pro-drug arguments are pushing the drug legalization movement back about 30 years. :rolleyes:

32

It sure sounds to me like he does follow the crowd. I only know about my own high school, but there, something like 80% of the kids drink and/or smoke pot.

I don’t think that it is “small-minded” to be against drugs. I do think that it is small-minded to judge someone based on the fact that they do drugs, however. But if someone doesn’t want to be friends with you because of that, I understand. It is so very easy to get pulled into that shit - some of my friends have been. It sucks to watch that happen.

ssj_man2k, I didn’t mean to be a bitch in my earlier post. I don’t really have a problem with people who smoke pot and drink. As for druggie stereotypes: I think that a lot of them ring true. You sound a bit different, what with getting good grades and all, but if I met you and you were dressed like a skater and laughing that stoner laugh, I wouldn’t be surprised. I think it’s kind of sad that you feel that you need drugs to have fun.

33

Silver, it depends on how fast you go through the bag, and how much $40 gets you. I can keep an eighth going for two months, maybe a little more. That would be $5 a week. So I forgo things I shouldn’t spend money on anyway, like candy bars and TV Guide. An acceptable tradeoff.

Don’t remember who quoted this; they may not even be on the board anymore, but someone once posted that “Weed will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no weed.”

34

That person, and anyone else who believes this little saying, is welcome to keep their weed and send their money to me.

35

He still doesn’t know if he’s speaking French or English…

36

The thing about it is, some people use it and it ruins their life. Some people are strong-willed enough to decide when to toke or if to toke. Others see the grass as an answer to their problems or a way to pass time.

Some people use too much salt and it ruins their life. Same deal. Excercise caution when dealing with foreign chemicals entering your body.

And THC releases dopamine, the feel-good hormone. It releases large amounts of it at once, leaving depleted stores of it. While it may not be physically addictive, it may lead to dependency or at least form habits.

37

I’m speaking english, i beleive. I’ve never said i had to absolutely have drugs to have fun, it’s just something i do for fun. In a small town like mine, it gets real boring real fast.

But i don’t dress like a skater, and i don’t laugh that stoner laugh. You’d probably give me the evil eye if you saw me on the street, though.

38

Shit man… This really pisses me off when the board is disabled just when I’m about to post. What are you administrators DOING that takes so long? [sub]please don’t hurt me[/sub]

Here are some comments in no particular order:

Actually, um, Carl Sagan smoked a fuckload of pot. There was a story in the local newspaper after he died and his private journal was released about how he was smoking pot in the shower with his wife one time and came up with a revolutionary new astrophysics concept, which he proceeded to write on the shower wall with soap. Furthermore, he did offer his daughter pot on numerous occassions, though she didn’t make a habit of it.

If that’s the worst you can come up with then I would say you should stick to fighting against harder drugs.

Well don’t let the anti-drug movement hear this. I see commercials all the time (or did in high school anyway, when I watched tv) that “dispell the myth that ‘everybody’s doing it’” and say that something like only 1 in 5 high school students smoke pot (implied regularly). Not to say I completely trust them either, but I do think it’s somewhat of a myth that everybody does it.

To add my own story to the mix as so many have:
I’m not going to say that pot made me a genius, but I’ve maintained between a B+ and an A- avg at an ivy league school for a year now with moderate-to-heavy pot use, and the occassional tryptamine. I definately can’t do math while I’m high, or programming for that matter, and really the main subject that I could say it helps me in is philosophy or something equally as abstract. There are some times when our (or at least my) brains just like dwelling on whats accepted rather than seeking new ground. When you’re doing something like integration where you need to recall the accepted rules for something, this is fine, but in the abstract subjects you sometimes want to make your own unbiased conclusions, and at least for me pot helps with that.

I have seen burn-outs and whatnot that just don’t function well in society anymore, and I really hope I don’t turn out like that, but from what I’ve experienced thusfar I don’t think any of this is inexplicably harmful or uncontrollable. I would say that a large part of the appeal to drugs is escaping the ordinary, so if you ever let the drugs become the ordinary, you’re defeating the purpose.

And then about the people who are telling you you’re a druggie, ssjman, I guaruntee that at least 1/2 of them will start smoking, and much more than that will start drinking, in college.

39

This isn’t necessarily relavent but I just came across it and its pretty funny and somewhat related. It’s a quote from “Don Mendrala/D.E.A”:

Oh man, that IS horrible. We can’t have color-smelling people running all willy-nilly around the country. We must put a stop to this immediately.