Dual Citizenship

This Brexit and all the news surrounding it got me thinking.

I am not British. I currently hold a Dutch citizinship + passport.

I was born in Ireland however. This link tells me that I can apply for an Irish citizinship.

How do I know if a dual citizinship would be beneficial to me in any way or just extra costs and burdens. Who/what do I ask?

The only two countries that require citizens to pay taxes even if they do not or never have resided in the country - Eritrea and the USA.

Otherwise, does it matter? The real question is, what do you get with Irish citizenship that you don’t get with Dutch? Other than the ability to go fight for ISIS or train with the Taliban with one passport, then use the other for regular travel afterwards - no stamps indicating unusual travel - I can’t think of a good reason. I have Canada and UK, and (until now) the advantage of the UK passport has been easier entry into the EU area…

Ask a lawyer. Or an immigration consultant.

Yeah for the most part it wouldn’t make a big difference as far as travel from and to the EU goes. I was thinking more along the lines of health care/schooling etc.

My dad has been living in France for years and gets free health care while remaining just a Dutch Citizen.

And I thought it would be kinda cool as my first years there have given me some sort of bond to the country.

A look at the maps on Wikipedia suggests that Irish citizens don’t need a visa to visit Uganda, Malawi, or Zambia, but Dutch citizens have to pick up one on arrival (which usually means extra fees). You still don’t need pre-approval though. On the other hand, Dutch citizens get better access to Kazakhstan and UAE, as well as Suriname (a former Dutch possession).

Note that first section: Ireland doesn’t have unrestricted jus soli like US or Canada; one of your parents has to be an Irish or British citizen or resident. If you were born in Northern Ireland some may claim Irish and/or British citizenship as well, but ask a lawyer.

If you can, I’d do it!

A possible draw back is that if you are in Ireland and need help ,which you may prefer to come from the Dutch embassy/consulate (whats in a name ? ), you may be denied … because you are an irish citizen, they treat you like an Irish RESIDENT.
tends to happen more when its a communist or war torn country, eg a vietnamese born person returning to vietnam… gets denied that they have extra citizenship.

Draft or national service- you can get drafted into Ireland’s army ? check that out

But otherwise, you must consider the Irish law of citizenship, the netherlands law of citizenship, and the EU’s laws too, as they may be imposed on top ??

The possibility is that taking on a new citizenship, in some conditions, may cause cancellation of your old citizenship

But thats archaic and you are right to assume that likely you become dual citizen, as redundant as that is with an EU citizenship.

Also its possible that the laws may change and that having gained citizenship now means that decades in the future, you can claim some benefit, eg pension , if you move to Ireland at some stage.

Ireland is one of the mostly friendly to dual citizenship countries in the world. There are many people outside of the Republic with them. NL has a bunch of caveats which may or may not apply to the OP but generally accept dual citizenship.

If the OP moved to the UK with Irish citizenship he’d have the same right to vote (& stand for public office) as a British or Commonwealth citizen; as a Dutch citizen he could only vote in local (& Scottish) elections.

Yes, the Canadian government changed their laws in the last big Lebanese episode about a decade ago. There was a backlash against people who had moved to Canada, obtained citizenship, and then moved back home for 10 or 20 years. Then when a civil unrest threatened, they expected Canada to provide a means to evacuate them. Now IIRC if you are a citizen of that country and have not been in Canada for the last 10(?) years you will not be helped by the embassy.

Similar situation may apply for Dutch or Irish citizenship, but then again, Canada had a lot of immigrants and refugees. (Perhaps Holland also?)

But does an Irish national have a special automatic right of entry/settlement into the UK - and will they after the Brexit is settled?

That’s only true since 2005; previously the rule was similar to that in the US. If Rama was born before 2005, his/her birth in Ireland confers either automatic entitlement to citizenship or automatic citizenship.

That’s a minor one, really. Irish citizens have almost all the rights of UK citizens within the UK and that was decided long before the EU existed; very few of the laws have been changed significantly since Irish independence almost a century ago.

Changing the rights of EU citizens wouldn’t automatically change the rights of Irish citizens because they have rights under their Irish citizenship that were enacted decades before they had rights as UK citizens. It would require extra, separate legislation to start treating Irish citizens the same as EU citizens and there’s no appetite for that at all.

For an example of the rights Irish citizens get in the UK, there’s the common travel area between the UK and Ireland, which means they don’t need passports to come to the UK and we don’t need passports to go there. Airlines usually require passports, but it’s not a govt requirement. The UK is not and has never been a part of the Schengen area - if you’re from the Netherlands you do need a passport to enter the UK, and vice versa.

Here’s a link https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/british-and-irish-citizens-claiming-benefits/ showing that Irish citizens are also allowed to claim benefits and housing under the same rules as UK citizens. EU citizens have different rules.

Irish citizens have always had the right to use the NHS - not just emergency services, but registering with a GP and just being a general ordinary patient - even before the EU.

I’d be able to show you better links to the original treaties on another day when Google wasn’t overwhelmed by the referendum.

There are other things I’m not thinking of right now, but in short yes, if you wanted the right to remain in the UK after it leaves the EU, and wanted other rights within the UK, and you could get Irish citizenship but not UK, it would be a very wise move.

I also have wondered how it works with the law. The standard line in Law and Order, when a person gets out on bail, is “surrender your passport”. I also recall reading somewhere that a passport is the property of the issuing country, so “surrender your passport” should not apply to a foreign passport, assuming the authorities even know about that passport?

(One line on the Canadian passport application is “what other countries are you a citizen of?” so they would know which other countries you might have a passport from; assuming (unlikely) the courts have routine access to your passport application.)

As long as there are no legal or economic problems, you can’t have too many passports.

If you lose one, you have other options.

There’s no EU laws regarding citizenship.

Note that European Social Security is actually established by a separate treaty (it includes non-EU countries); Brexit doesn’t affect it unless someone specifically brings it to the table.

Yes, there is: it’s adressed by the Treaty of Maasticht and the Lisbon Treaty and various other EU instruments.

They don’t create an EU citizenship which is separate from the citizenship of the member states; the only way to be a citizen of the EU is to be a citizens of one of the member states, and every citizen of a member state is also a citizen of the Union.

But EU law does create a citizenship which is a distinct status from national citizenship, and which confers additional rights to those arising out of national citizenship.

The UK will be bringing it to the table, though. One of the hot-button issues raised in the referendum campaign was the pressure put on the UK health service (and other public services) by migrants availing of them. There isn’t much point to Brexit if it doesn’t open the way for addressing these things.

SFAIK the current European Social Security arrangements embrace EU members and EEA members. The UK isn’t currently an EEA member and one of the issues they will have to face on exiting the EU is whether they are going to join the EEA and, if so, on what terms. The default position, if they leave the EU and aren’t admitted to the EEA (and no new arrangement is negotiated) is that the UK will fall out of the European social security arrangements.

I have dual Irish/American citizenship because my father was born in Ireland. He told me this when I was already in my 30s and I didn’t quite believe it.

So I called the Irish embassy about what I termed “applying” for Irish citizenship. I was informed I didn’t need to apply, I already WAS an Irish citizen. I could apply for an Irish passport to document this if I wanted to.

I never did so because I never found any particular reason to.

Note: after looking at the OP link, you are in the same boat. You don’t have to apply to BE an Irish citizen, you probably are one already. You would apply for some kind of documentation to verify that fact.

Allow me to rephrase because you’re right, I wasn’t clear: there aren’t any EU-level regulations regarding citizenship in EU-member countries, i.e., telling EU-member countries how to decide who is or is not a citizen of said countries. That is defined by each country individually.

That’s got nothing to do with the country the passport is the property of. It’s all about “give us your passport so that you can’t leave the country. The alternative is that you’ll be remanded instead of having bail set”
A quick search suggests that Indian, British , Australian and UAE courts all may require the surrender of a foreign passport as a bail condition- and I suspect that almost all countries allow such a bail condition.

Actually the Netherlands is really difficult about dual citizenship. In many cases Dutch people have to give up their Dutch citizenship when they gain another. But yes, many caveats apply.

The application asks if you acquired citizenship of another country prior to 1947. That’s due to a quirk in the law. Another quirk is if you were born abroad between 1977 and 1981. Other than that, Canada doesn’t care, and it is not a question on the application.

Re the OP, I’d go for it. Can’t hurt, and you never know what will happen down the road. As mentioned above, the only possible drawback is that if you get in trouble in Ireland, the Netherlands won’t offer you services; you’re an Irish citizen. And vice versa. As long as you’re not planning on getting arrested in Ireland, you’re OK.