I always described my addiction as a choice, a heavily weighted choice. It’s not something I just can magically will myself out of, no matter much my scarred veins and mental damage makes me want to.
To be honest I care little for those who are so eager to pass judgement but have never lived through it. I can tell you the best predictor of whether my drug consular will be good or not: if they are in the know.
I’ve had the worst experiences with attempts at “rehabilitating” me when the people involved were not experienced in the disease and basically treated addiction as an abstract idea (as a touched upon above.)
There’s nothing wrong with being glad an addict is dead by his own hand. Sometimes you can help them, sometimes you can’t. While ideally, human decency wants to give him as many chances as it takes to get better, in reality many of them cannot be helped and eventually the reservoir of pity and helpfulness run dry. This guy’s been this way for years, how many more should slee or his niece wait? Until he bankrupts his parents? Maybe she’ll marry him so she can change him?
You may not want to admit it, Green Bean, but his death was the most realistic and easiest way for all involved to get out of that cesspool
Is it at all hypocritical that Slee used to be an alcoholic? I was thinking the OP was using some strong words considering he used to be an addict himself. Not that I’m put off by it, I’d probably be using those same words too if it were my family member.
As someone who just lost someone they loved two months ago to drugs (technically she was murdered, but she wouldn’t have been there if it weren’t for the drugs) - I can tell you I have never felt so much pain. The fact that most saw her as a loser doesn’t at all change the good I knew was in her and the love I had for her.
The day before she died she visited my Dad in the hospital - he was recovering in a nursing home (he’s fine now). Technically I don’t know if it was a nursing home, but it had almost all elderly people and was depressing as hell. She said “God please don’t let me end up here when I’m 80.” I laughed in a real smart ass way and said “Who are you kidding - we both no you aren’t making it to 80!” We both laughed pretty hard - and she was dead less than 24 hours later.
She wasn’t my girlfriend (we weren’t monogamous), but we loved each other. I knew her time was limited (so did she). I tried to help her. Her mom and I talk all the time now and try and remember the good things. Actually it isn’t that hard.
Is your niece truly blaming herself?
In my case my “special friend” had asked if she could spend the night. I told her “no”. She probably would have still been with me the time she was killed (was a murder suicide - so at least I don’t have to go through a trial) if I had said yes. I was so worried her Mom would blame me, but quite the opposite - we’ve been talking often and every time she mentions how grateful she is that I was in her life. We both (me and her mom) keep saying “I wish this” and “I wish that”, but we both know there is nothing we could have done. Sure if had said yes that night - she would probably at least have been alive another day or so.
I’m glad you are there for your niece - and seem to have good things to say about him along with the bad. You should hear the inconsiderate things my friends mom has had to hear - my favorite - “at least you have other Children.” We actually laughed about some of these - so we have a good sense of humor about things. So when we talk about her other kids now - we’ve referenced them as her “backup kids”.
For the record, I didn’t ‘used to be an alcoholic’. I am still, and will always be, an alcoholic. Alcoholism isn’t like the flu, it is a for life thing.
Anyway, I am sort of a hard ass when dealing with addicts/alkies who need help. I am a hard ass in that I tell them straight up that if they don’t get clean they will either die or end up in prison. I tell them that they will lose everything they love before they get put in a box, either a cement box or a nice pine one with a fluffy pillow under their head. I tell them that they need to find a way to get sober, A.A. worked for me.
I also tell them that I’ve been there. I’ve been suicidal. I’ve been homeless, hopeless and lost. I’ve lived through the utter dispair that is addiction. And I found a way to not live like that anymore. If I can do it, anyone can. I tell them how good life is now by sharing my story.
And I offer what little help I can. Heck, I’ve shared what little knowledge I have on getting and staying sober to a few people on this board who PM’ed me asking for advice. I’ve sponsered people in A.A and I’ve paid for the first month in a halfway house for about 10 or 12 guys.
I’ve gone to prison meetinngs to offer hope and help to inmates. I’ve help a few guys learn enough computer stuff to get a job.
So I am a hard ass because I know from personal experience that it is the only way to get through to people who are as fucked up as I was (and still am, to a point).
The bottom line is that it is the addicts/alkies responsibility to get themselves clean. When someone has the support that Ted had and still goes out and ODs, well, I feel sorry for them and at the same time there is a ton of anger. Especially when the collateral damage includes someone I care about.
My brother fucked up his life and his personality permanently by using Meth. He was addicted, and denied it and tried to hide it. The only thing that saved him was his family forcing him to move back home and sober up, which he did. But he’s a scary shell of the person he once was. It’s sad.
Fuck addiction. I’m very fortunate that I don’t seem to suffer from an addictive personality (then again, I won’t ever let myself try certain things even once).
I’ve corresponded privately with Slee before (and I hope it’s okay that I mention that) regarding my own struggles with alcohol (which continue, but thankfully to a much lesser degree than before) so if anyone is doubting his veracity on this subject, please don’t.
Addicts who are currently living a sober life tend to be hardasses in regards to active addicts because they can see through the bullshit. They can do that because they have been there and handed out their own piles of steaming shit. They also know that if you allow an addict to become comfortable in their situation they will not ever change. It takes an incredibly hard kick in the pants to get an addict to change, and for some of them nothing will work.
I’m really sorry that you are suffering as much as you are. I really do understand. I’m still a speed freak. There are certain OTC meds that I can’t take because they give me a tiny taste of that beautiful rush and make me want more.
I know for a fact that all it would take is just one tiny line of meth to put me right back where I was 10 years ago. I had to make serious life style changes to be sure that I’d never be around people who used, and its the reason I rarely carry cash.
And dang, there are times when I so want to sneak a cigarette. IMHO, tobacco is worse than meth when it comes to breaking the habit. I can avoid meth users, I can avoid watching shows where people are using, I can’t avoid smokers. I see them on the street, I see them in their cars, sometimes just hearing someone hack out that smoker’s cough is enough to make me want to ask them for a cig and a light.
So, I’m still a speed freak and I’m still a smoker. I’m just not using.
Thank you for saying this. I didn’t mean to come across as heartless, but yes. 1000 times yes. People thought I was being mean to Tony because I left him in jail because he wasn’t taking his meds. I wasn’t being mean, I was giving him a really hard kick in the ass.
I know that he’s mentally ill, I know that it isn’t his fault. I love the man dearly and it hurt my heart to do it to him, but I knew that if I kept bailing him out he wouldn’t be motivated to continue to get help. I’m the only one who cares about him enough to bail him out, and I’m the only one who cares enough to tough love him.
So very true, not to mention any time you go to a meeting everybody is slamming copious amounts of coffee and smoking like fiends. Longest I’ve quit smoking was around a month with Chantix, but Chantix screwed up my short-term memory (Zyban does the same thing) which made it impossible to write English papers.
I remember being told and this being told to my parents to basically not give me shit for smoking because quitting drugs was the more important thing, which I agree to to a degree, one step at a time and all that. However it seems people who are able to conquer their heroin addictions cannot stop smoking. I’ve never met a clean hard-drug addict who managed to stop smoking.
I went back to smoking recently whereas before I was managing my nicotine habit with small doses of snuff which is much easier to handle and cheaper. Oh well, one day perhaps.
On your last line. I went to a funeral 3 years ago for this guy, a brother of my wifes best friend, and this guy was a complete waste of damn near anything. He was a drunk and alcoholic that had 3 sons over the years from 2 different women but had ceased being a part of their lives years ago. He was 52 when he died and his last IRS statement showed the few times he had actually worked a job, he had made only $50,000 in his lifetime. The man had though inherited quite a bit from his parents but blew it all on drugs. He would even resort to stealing from his mother by forging checks.
At the funeral the sons I could tell, were trying to make something of their lives. They came up to my wifes friend and asked her about getting some inheritance and she sadly had to tell them no - they get nothing because your damb ass POS of a “father” had blown it all. She did allow them to go thru his house and to take whatever they wanted.
Over the years his parents had tried everything. Sending him to good schools, giving him support, but in the end he abandoned his wives and sons and all he cared about was doing drugs and hanging with his druggie friends.
I still feel for the sons. They seem like good guys but struggle so hard and feel alone in this world without any kind of deep family roots. I know the Bible tells us to “Honor our mother and father” but some people, I dont know.
I have known a few, but then, thanks to working in a clinic, I have known literally thousands of addicts. I’ve known a few people who just woke up one morning, decided not to do drugs anymore, and made it stick, too, but that only happened about once every two years there, so it was one out of several thousand who could pull that off.
The truth is that nicotine is just as addicting as heroin or cocaine or alcohol. Really. People are often amazed when I state that, but it’s true. A big difference is that nicotine is legal. A big difference between alcohol and heroin is that alcohol is legal but ANY addiction can screw up your life just as thoroughly as any illegal drug even if the details are different.
Yeah, and Teds family found the advice they were getting about Teds addiction offputting as well. I am sure that was a source of great comfort when they buried him.
With addicts and alcoholics there ain’t no easy path. I really don’t care how they stop using, just as long as they do. A.A. and N.A. work for some. A 12 step program with additional counseling has the highest success rate according to the NIH. Some mange to do it on their own.
But the fact is that addicts and alcoholics die. And they frequently take others with them. And before they die the cause nothing but pain for those who love them.
And there is a one size fits all solution. Don’t drink or use drugs. There are multiple options addicts can use for support when they try and get clean. I don’t particularly care which one they use, as long as it works.
So you are saying a nicotine addiction can be just as ruinous to a person’s life and everyone around them as a heroin or crack addiction? Please tell me that’s not what you are saying.
ETA: Yes, both types of addictions can kill you but the quality of life leading up to that ultimate death is not even comparable.
I have nothing to add that the other recovering people haven’t already said, but I’m very grateful that the usual Dope AA-bashing isn’t happening in this thread.
AA can withstand bashing. It’s designed to. I’m glad it’s there, it sure saved my ass. After I’d tried everything else and failed. Otherwise I’d be a dead dumbass drug addict by now, who pulled many around me down with me as I went.
How familiar are you with what oral cancers or lung cancer does to a human body?
As I said, the details differ but hell yes, nicotine addiction can kill you, and before it kills you it can torture you, destroy your body, and twist you in agony. Smoking can also lead to death by fire, or horrific burns when people fall asleep while smoking in bed or on the couch. There have also been fatal poisonings in people exposed to the concentrates in e-cigarettes which are potent enough that you can potentially absorb a fatal dose through your skin.
The effects of cancer, or of burns, or sudden death along with depletion of funds are definite negatives of nicotine addiction that affect the family and friends as well as the addict.
No, nicotine addicts don’t usually become homeless or steal to feed their addiction - before 1914 and the laws regarding control of things like narcotics opium/heroin addicts generally didn’t become homeless or thieves, either.
There are consequences to making access illegal that add another layer on top of the problems inherent in an addiction, but if you think nicotine is relatively benign you aren’t connecting the dots.