This.
I’m one of those rare people who woke up one day and said “I can’t do meth anymore” and quit. It wasn’t easy, and I know that I’m still a speed freak. I won’t even risk using nasal sprays because the feeling of something up my nose makes me think about snorting speed.
My husband quit smoking because he had just had a heart attack and quad bypass surgery. Even then, he only quit because he realized how much of a mess he would leave for those of us who loved him.
I never said nicotine was “relatively benign” nor did i imply such a thing. In case you glazed over it, i did say that both addictions can kill a person. But to equate a lifetime of smoking cigerattes with a lifetime of smoking crack-in terms of quality of life is nonsense (former long term smoker btw, if that matters).
This reminds me of the drug counselor who is meeting with a bunch of addicts. In an attempt to gain their trust and get them to open up, the counselor refers to himself as an addict too. He says he’s been clean for 15 years now. When asked what his drug of choice was, he replies: cigarettes.
:smack:
How seriously do you think anyone in that room took him after that?
Yep, that nicotine is dangerous alright. 5 whole deaths in the span of 11 years. Link
And look at all the other dangerous stuff we must be scared of:
Put away that make up ladies, IT’S KILLING YOU! THINK OF YOUR CHILDREN!
Airman’s cousin was a longtime smoker who was treated for lung cancer a few years ago. He’s now recovering from spinal surgery to remove two vertebrae that had developed metastasis, and he’s still got radiation and (maybe) chemo. Not to mention the pain that comes with that and the loss of function due to having fewer than two lungs. Lungs don’t grow back, y’know.
The thing is, if a person consumed nicotine that was as concentrated as crack it would be very quickly fatal. A better comparison is between cigarettes and chewing coca leaves, the latter of which is more on par with cigarettes than a crackpipe. In South American areas where coca chewing and tea drinking are long-established customs that form of consumption is far less damaging than hyper-refining and ingesting highly concentrated forms of the chemicals.
You also have to consider that illegal drugs are almost always contaminated in one way or another. Those contaminants can be more toxic than the psychoactive substance - that’s what makes krokodil so much more horrific than smoking opium ever was. Some of the damage done by things like crack has to do with the contaminants in the illicit drugs and not just the active ingredient.
Let’s go back to Prohibition and consider bathtub gin. Lovely stuff, made incorrectly it resulted in blindness and neurological damage on top of what ethanol normally does to a person, and a good example of how making something illegal can significantly increase the risks involved.
If opium hadn’t been outlawed as a recreational drug we might never have developed some of the nastier forms of opiates or seen widespread use of such things. Of course, there were a lot of problem with legal opium, too. It’s a bit of conundrum - drugs and addiction are problems, but outlawing them, while reducing absolute numbers, also causes problems.
But hey, if it makes you feel better than your nicotine addiction wasn’t that bad or harmful whatever. It doesn’t change the fact you were an addict, and addicted to a substance many find harder to give up than heroin. So, congrats on getting that monkey off your back. You’re better off without it.
I don’t think the comparison to nicotine is a bad one for all purposes.
Of course people don’t go robbing liquor stores to feed a cigarette habit, but that is in part due to the legality of cigarettes vs heroin and crack.
My friend who died committed crimes to support her habit - not because of her habit. People can lead relatively normal lives on opiates - it’s just not possible to do so for almost anyone due to the costs involved.
There are plenty of people who condemn drug addicts, alcoholics, and smokers - as they were able to abstain/kick the habit/whatever. If that makes them feel better - so be it.
I don’t think a counselor who says they were addicted to to something would be laughed out of the room by the addicts I know - it is very hard to quit smoking. And there are a lot of similarities to the social pressures and such. Addicts who are surrounded by drug users will always be tempted to relapse - as will smokers who are surrounded by other smokers. It isn’t the same thing obviously, but it isn’t like we are talking about someone who likes chocolate. And I don’t know what the withdrawal is like for cigarettes, but not all addicts have very bad intolerable physical withdrawal. I think the fear of withdrawal is probably much higher for drug addicts, but I’d don’t know cause I don’t usually hear about smokers talking about quitting in terms of withdrawal.
Most of the drug users I have met have some sort of underlying mental health problem(s) - many aren’t even using to get high, but to function. The lack of understanding about this is appalling - among those in the medical field and mental health fields even. There is very little practical help for those out there suffering. The drugs offer them a way to function and are often helpful - until of course they aren’t - and then you need more of them.
If you are a poor person trying to get help for depression or ADHD - good luck, but for $10 - you can function for a day - and yeah feel good too. It isn’t as selfish and illogical as it appears from the outside. I am lucky - as for some reason - alcohol doesn’t draw me in as it does some others. I couldn’t be an alcoholic if I tried (which after desperation for depression - I pretty much tried). I’m certainly not going to claim I am morally superior due to my genetic good luck. Other drugs - well can’t say I’m immune to their charms. If there was something that worked effectively for my depression and ADHD - I would have never been tempted. I know others in the same boat.
I think it’s great that some people get help from AA. I do know one very smart friend who pretty much became a raging alcoholic and was a respected scientist in her field. She didn’t even have to hit rock bottom - and it seems to work great for her. Not everyone can do AA and the treatment options for opiate based drug users where I am - if they don’t have money is basically non existent.
My friend who was killed - I was with her in the hospital as her liver was failing (not really failing I suppose - they thought she was going to need a transfer, but once they got all the acetaminophen out of her blood - she was let go). Two things to note here - the opiates weren’t harming her - it was the Tylenol packaged in them. The street price is the same for opiates with & without Tylenol. After she had prior issues - she had drug dealers “nice enough” to try and save her the Tylenol free versions, but sometimes she couldn’t get any - and basically OD’d on Tylenol.
The other thing is when they got the Tylenol out of her system - she was switched to suboxone - which works great for many people at fighting withdrawal (kinda like methadone). But for some reason the government has made it so difficult to prescribe - it is the only drug (that I know of) that a fully licensed MD with a DEA# can’t prescribe without taking a specific class. I get some of the reason, but long story short - they put her on suboxone and was given once a day dosing until they let her go. On the day they let her go (mind you she probably ran up $20k+ in hospital bills) - they just discharged her.
“Ok what do I do - I’m going to go into withdrawal soon?”
“Stop taking drugs - I gave you a suboxone this morning - that should last you til tomorrow.”
No phone number, no “hey here is a doctor that sees people pro bono”, no “here is a support group”. NOTHING.
After she ODed the next time I took her to the hospital and the doctor said that that hospital (it was different than the first one) - couldn’t prescribe suboxone - as they had no one that had taken the classes. She was limited to prescribing xanax, clonidine, and immodium (which actually helps a decent amount) - but her recommendation was that she stop using opiate pills and start using regular heroin. Unfortunately the shifts changed or whatever before I could find out exactly why she was making this recommendation. I think she said half the people she sees (emergency room doc) have substance abuse problems.
My point is that there were two occasions that I was present when someone was in very obvious serious trouble with drugs - and no help was provided. I realize that personal responsibility is important, but obviously that wasn’t happening here. I just was astonished that there wasn’t someone whose job it is - especially since she probably ended up costing those facilities $10s of thousands of dollars - to try and help point that person in some direction. Maybe prevention isn’t cost effective.
She wouldn’t have taken any abstinence based help, but she might have taken replacement based help - and they of course didn’t know this. Her doctor in the second case did say she would give her a phone number for a place that took poor people, but there was like a very long waiting list - and not everyone is willing to do inpatient - and she didn’t come back anyway.
It is easy to blame drug addicts - as well they are the most obvious cause of their problems. But they are human beings and while I realize opiates are only a part of the problem - it appears that suboxone is a very effective method of keeping people off drugs (opiates). Of course the idea of them still being on a drug (it is an opiate) just rubs some people the wrong way as they are “still addicted” and people don’t like the idea of having to pay for someone addiction. To me it is like smoking cigarettes vs nicotine gum - and not even that - as suboxone usually won’t make an addict high as it only partially activates the receptors.
Funny thing was she hated drugs - she knew she was an addict, but since it was pills - in her mind it was different. She didn’t like alcohol - and couldn’t stand smokers.
Oh well - don’t really have too much of a point - just miss her and think our drug policies are stupid.
Understood, man, and I agree. It’s just that the bashing activates one of my character defects, and it bugs me.
What are support groups for family/friends really like? I tried looking up a local support group and they still had the twelve steps, which didn’t make sense to me for non addicts. Also wondering if they are flexible in terms of admitting people affected by a drug user into the alcoholics group, and so forth.
I am sad for Sleestak and his niece. I hope she gets the clarity she needs to gain some insight into what was within her to choose Ted as her partner ( she stayed for the abuse).
I just want to mention that I have been told by a few therapists I know that smoking is the hardest addiction to break…It is not just the addiction to nicotine. If it was, smokers could put on patches or chew gum with no problem. It is the nicotine plus the smoking- the lighting, inhaling, the social situations…all of it. Also, I read somewhere there is a gene discovered that makes breaking some addictions so so hard for people that have this gene.
And, DataX, Suboxone and Subutex seem like wonder drugs, but, I have never met a doctor who knows how to help withdraw a person from suboxone. And, I have never seen or read about anyone ever getting off of it w/o going on another drug.
DataX, Im on my phone so i didnt quote your post but that story about a drug counselor being “laughed out of the room” for calling himself an addict.for being an ex-cigarette smoker is a real life account.
Saying that nicotine is the hardest addiction to break is not at all like saying nicotine addictions are the worst addictions as far as overall consequences on addicts lives.
I agree, even with smoking addiction which I explained in my post.
What I don’t think I like about AA: I have no personal experience so I don’t know if this is true-- Friends tell me that AA does not call an addiction an addiction unless the use of the substance causes negative consequences. i.e. a person is not an alcoholic if they have a few drinks every night, don’t get in the car, are not obnoxious, and no one minds. Future liver and bodily damage is not considered a consequence since it has not happened yet. I believe a person who has to have a few drinks every night could be an alcoholic.
So, is this the AA definition of addiction?
That’s the *medical * definition of addiction, not just AA’s. A habit which someone continues despite the negative health, financial, personal and/or psychological consequences. Its a progressive disease.
“The next time you have a thought- let it go.” - Ron White
I’m going to answer your second question first. By tradition, Al-Anon is for families and friends of alcoholics.
That said, each group has the autonomy to make its choices, and in my experience, no group will turn someone away because the drug of choice was something other than alcohol because most people understand that there’s not much of a distinction between addiction to alcohol and addiction to other drugs. I’m sure there are some that will, but I’ve yet to encounter that in actual practice.
In terms of your first question, I will concede that Al-Anon is misunderstood. The underlying principle is that alcoholism affects everyone in the family because the family learns to revolve around the alcoholic and his needs and adopts a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and other behaviors as a means of survival. (There’s more to it than that, but that’s the Cliffs Notes version.) Al-Anon, therefore, teaches better coping mechanisms, conflict resolution skills, and how to focus on myself and my own behavior. The Steps are used as a framework to examine what the unhealthy behaviors are, as well as how to internalize the new, healthy ones.
If you have more questions, just ask.
Thanks! I may try to check out the actual group, but can you recommend a good web resource with similar tips?
This is dipping into the “once a xxxxx, always a xxxxx, no matter what, no matter who, no matter all testimony to the contrary” bullshit.
I have insomnia - for 30 years, I dealt with it by drinking. Eventually, it was 2 Insomnia gel-caps* and 200-250 ml 100-proof Stoli.
According to some, I must be an alki, and, should I ever drink another drop of ethanol, I’ll be in the gutter.
News flash: I can, and have, had alcohol - there is only one true pizza, and the only proper beverage with it is beer.
I eat pizza.
I now have 'script for morphine and hydromorphone. Anybody wish to predict how I’ll die?
Wrong! Kidney failure will get me long before the opiates get me.
I don’t know of any such websites. Al-Anon’s primary strengths are the mutual support and that it recognizes that YMMV; it’s far from a “if you do x, you will get y” thing. We really don’t do “tips” and we don’t give advice.
Check out an open meeting or two. You’ll learn what Al-Anon is and what it isn’t, and you’ll learn something that’ll help.