Except when police forces do it, it’s entrapment.
A pleasure. I’ve no sympathy for sickoes, having once been on the wrong end of some unwanted looking in a public toilet (as in, from under the partition to the next cubicle) as a teenager, and, at rising 12, been chatted up on Bath bus station by someone who took very little time to go from offering me a cigarette for finding him the time of a bus, to asking me if I would let my best friend wank me off. :rolleyes:
But on the other hand, if the police in their wisdom decided that there was too much racing on the public highway, and sent out unmarked cars to give people the thumbs-up at traffic lights in order to entice them to race, and then threw the book at them when they took the bait, I’d be less than impressed. That goes double if it’s not even the police but some dumbass vigilante group who seem to take excessive pleasure in the success of their efforts, and all the more so if the big majority of prosecutions are of drivers who’ve taken the bait, and those who went racing without the provocation are few and far between.
Did you get that off a Geocities page with angel and flower graphics, background MIDI music, a link to “survivor” poetry and a Dale Earnhardt shrine, and 50 awards including “Dee Dee’s Dandy Page of the Day” and “Tammy’s Terrific Site”?
Yes
This is not the method used, if this took place as you describe it, it would not be endorsed or supported by PJ in any way. You list several glaring procedural deviations from approved methods at least since I have had any dealings with them starting about 3 years ago. The separate teams do baiting, background investigation, and confrontation. Pouncing on the guy immediately would destroy any real chance of an arrest which is what PJ is all about. Please tell your poser friends to stop screwing it up.
Ignatz, though this is “making the rounds”, even if not attributed to an author, it is not acceptable to post others’ work on this board. A short quotation and link are permitted. Do not do this again.
Let’s look at intent. A woman wants her husband dead but doesn’t want to do it herself. She asks around and finds someone willing to do it for her. She discusses how she wants it done and how much she will pay. She provides the money to the hit man. Turns out the hit man is a cop. She is nailed for not only solicitation to commit murder but also the intent since no murder has occurred.
These perverts chat for weeks with kids, making the kid more comfortable and familiar. The conversations get more personal and eventually more graphic. This is still not criminal, only gross.
When the conversations reach a certain point of sexual “openness” the adult will sometimes send pornographic pictures or links to adult pages. Strike one: distribution of pornography to a minor. It doesn’t matter that the recipient is an adult. The person sending believes it is and is purposely sending pornography to a person they believe is not an adult.
The perv then moves to the next level by looking to get together. They describe what they want to do with the child and what they want the child to do. To prove intent, the decoy will ask the perv to bring certain items along, usually condoms or pornography. If the person shows up without the stuff then the cops have a harder time proving intent. The chat log can be written off as fantasy with no plan on following through. If they have the requested items with them that means that the person doing the writing was serious about their plans. That’s strike two.
I have no sympathy for these perverts. They prey on children and need to be taken off the streets. Are they sick or mentally ill? Maybe. But treatments for pedophiles (and don’t get into the whole crap about ebophile versus pedophile definitions) are ineffective and the recidivism rate is high. I had posted in a previous thread about what my 14 YO neighbor did with my 6 YO daughter. After going through the court system and talking with police, social workers, child psychiatrists and the states attorney, I see little to no hope of these people being “cured” or even of them being punished for a reasonable period of time.
I’ve been offered bribes and had opportunities offered to me where I could scam companies. I didn’t do it because it was wrong! Some of the people offering the bribes were very persuasive but I still said no because it was wrong! These perverts were tricked? Boo-fucking-hoo. They knew what they were doing was wrong and they did it anyway.
They don’t discourage it, either.
From the rules of said forum:
My second attempt today to satiate some of my curiosity. 
I remember reading your thread about your 14 year old neighbor and thought that the whole thing had to be a living hell for your daughter. I can’t begin to imagine what that meant to you and her other loved ones. The restraint you showed by not beating him within an inch of his life is admirable. I’m not sure I could do the same (with my non-existent children) if I were in your shoes.
But I do have a question. Every time I see someone mention one of these people are a pedophile, I automatically think of ages like that of your little girl. When it follows up and I then find out that they’re really, say 15 or anything above puberty, it gives me that jarring cognitive dissonance thing. So I guess what I’m asking is why making a distinction is ___________ (wrong? odious? irrelevant? whatever – I just need a little help here)? To me, not doing it somehow seems to lessen the horror of it indeed happening to a 4 year old and by calling a teenage a child, it just makes my head spin. Yes, I realize they’re not an adult or capable of consent. However, my humble opinion makes me think it’s unfairly (to them) infantilizing them and therefore disrespectful. Does that make sense?
Finally, I really am just curious and I don’t mean to pick on you. 
It’s just this is the first time I remembered to ask in a thread I was already sort of participating in and when I wandered into an example, I simply couldn’t help myself. I hope you don’t mind and understand that I’m only talking about my and in no way do I mean to impute them on to anyone else. If I’m barking up the wrong tree, as it were, I apologize for being insensitive. I only hope to learn. Thank you for any answers.
It’s the same logic that some gun control advocates like to use when they quote statistics on deaths by firearms. They will tell you that X children die every week as the result of the use of firearms, without mentioning that their definition of child is anyone under the age of 21, including gang-bangers, drug dealers, violent felons shot by the police, etc.
I’m not sure I really understand what you are asking. Are you asking why there should be a distinction between an adult performing sexual acts with a 4 year old versus an adult performing sexual acts with a 16 year old?
My answer is very simple: teenagers, by and large, don’t think about consequences before they act. Look at the statistics for teenage drivers. Teens are more likely to engage in risky behavior. Studies on teen brains show that they are more prone to acting “in the moment” and not looking into the future effects of their actions. Adults, again by and large, understand that if they do X then Y might happen. They learn that if they speed they might get a ticket. They know that if they cheat on their taxes, the IRS might come after them. They know that if they have unprotected sex, they (or their partner) could get pregnant or they could get an STD.
Yes, there are some teens that are very emotionally mature for their age, but they are in the minority. Most teens live in the moment. Their latest crush is true love, and a break-up is the end of the world. They want to fit in and peer pressure is oppressive. As we get older we realize that shit happens and other people can just f off if they don’t like you.
Pedophiles take advantage of that inherent vulnerability. They really are predators, in the truest sense of the word. They look for the weak ones, the outcasts, the ones who are looking for acceptance. That is how the teachers, coaches, troop leaders and priests are able to do it. They make the kid feel special and wanted at that moment. Then when they have the kids’ trust they betray it by abusing them.
Two high school kids making out with each other don’t think about pregnancy or AIDS, but they also should not be legally punished because they are the same age. An 18 year old who just graduated from high school should not be punished because his girlfriend is still a sophomore.
But you have to wonder what is wrong with a college man (or older) who is cruising the high school looking for sex. They are not looking for a relationship. They don’t want an intellectual or emotional equal. They want someone immature that they can manipulate for their own means.
What’s BPD?
It was around the time the big debate thread over whether or not they were vigilantes was going on here. In order to read the discussion site, you had to join, so I did. I participated for a couple of months, until I both had a good feel for how they went about things and got sick enough of the attitudes I saw (one poster on the forum in particular who discussed how he would not ‘allow’ his 20 year old daughter to dress povocatively, as an exampe) and then just quit posting. I never mentioned this website, nor did I use the same nickname or email address I use here.
I’m all for arresting people who actually show up to meet a kid for sex. I am not in favor of identifying them to the general public on televisions or fliers on windshields in their neighborhood, calling their bosses and wives and families, or harassing them to ‘admit’ to being a pedophile in a chat log that will be posted along with their picture on a website prior to them actually being convicted of a crime.
It’s what I witnessed on their website in their chats and on their forums. It was the Perverted Justice people doing it, not my ‘poser friends’ (the couple of months I spent on that site was the closest I ever got to online sting operations) who were harassing and stalking. I remember one Perverted Justice poster inviting a ‘bust’ to his house with a pizza and then threatening him with a baseball bat, taking the pizza, and chasing the guy off.
Why are you so quick to insult me? Taking a page out of the Perveted Justice handbook? They think anyone who opposes any of their actions is trying to help pedophiles hurt kids.
And why is ‘Xavier von Erck’ so afraid to use his real name if what he’s doing is so noble?
Ergh! erie774, I apologize for being such a lame brain that you had to write all that out. Because I totally agree with you and that had, roughly, been my opinion for years. What I obviously failed to make clear, was that I simply wondered why you were disdainful of the particular labels? Those that would specifically differentiate between molestation of a child versus molestation of someone post puberty. Tis all. The rest was me just rattling on about why I thought the use of those definitions were a good thing by the ‘adults in waiting’ under discussion. Maybe I too accurately remember feeling disrespected when I was a youngun’.
And thanks catsix. I was mostly interested in learning if this was typical behavior for them in the beginning and they learned from it and grew more mature/responsible. Or if this was something recent and (from your description) continued on after all this time in a manner I’d probably deem inappropriate for the task at hand. Others’ mileage may vary.
mks57, I hear what you’re saying and I believe it mirrors my thoughts as well. Just one of those things that is already so heinous, I don’t want to make it worse than it is and do a disservice to pre-pubescent children and what they’ve endured. Because if the others are just living moment by moment without forethought to consequence, the littler ones aren’t even in the same ballpark at all. They each deserve so much respect.
That explains why adults should not have sex with teens. It doesn’t explain why you make no distinction between a pedo and an ephebophile. Bad as having sex with a 15-year-old would be (even where it’s not illegal), I wouldn’t get as angry about it as I would about someone having sex with a 6-year-old.
I also think saying “I have no sympathy for the offenders” is kind of dumb. Who said they did? The last time I saw this show, though, I looked up the PJ website, and I have really bad feelings about people who pretend to be teenage girls online and engage in sex chats. I don’t care how noble their stated goals are, you have to be kind of a sicko to do that.
I guess someone would have to join the site now and read everything and participate. I don’t want to. The time I spent there was an experience I never want to repeat.
I assume Borderline Personality Disorder
I, too, joined during that big debate thread and still have an account there. I’m not sure if I want to become more active, though.
I did. This web site is an eye opener.
And now there’s this web site to counter the link I just offered.
When did that big thread happen? Anyone have a ball park guesstimate? Also, I too must admit there’s a pervasive attitude over there that seems off to me… I don’t know what it is for sure, but once upon a time here in the pit, we had a thread where a fellow and his wife were going through an adoption, some sort of class training (if I’m saying that all right). Anyway, the story went that a woman who’d already been slated to do the same thing, got pregnant during the process and then (since they were still planning on following through with the adoption) turned into a raving lunatic, FIST PUMPING, lord-it-over-everyone-else bitch. Now who knows if the story were true, but it’s that same sort of attitude that keeps coming across.
Right now I’m looking at a log that would make Woody Allen look like the bastion of stability, and yet the decoy basically hounds him into supplying the information needed to verify. I realize that the dumbass put himself there and that he had ample opportunity to walk away, but I suppose the way it was gone about just rankles. I mean, I could see the guy in the future campaigning to be the head of NAMBLA based on his “mis-treatment” according to what he said in chat. Because, as everyone knows, it was the first time he’d ever done that and then it was entrapment and he’s being falsely accused. I guess I just think it should be a tad more honest. :rolleyes:
Or, on preview, what saoirse said stated my intentions more clearly. Sigh. I suck. (But then, I am 38.)
After some searching, I dug up that first thread about them that caused me to join their site and see what was up.
[url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=219421]Website provides pictures of young girls for pedophiles
[/quote]
I was mistaken, as it was a little over three years ago.