Dungeons and Dragons 4th ed. preview: Swamp Hobbits!

–or at least that’s the part that stood out most for me after perusing the recently published “Wizards Presents: Races and Classes” at the bookstore today. I get the distinct impression that the game is doing all it can to shed its tabletop RPG roots and recast itself as something more palatable to online gaming tastes. As a Tolkien-reading dork from back before it was fashionable, it makes me a bit sad that D&D apparently no longer regards me as its primary sales target. From the look of the preview, the new game extends the anime-ization trend started in 3rd Edition. There’s a strong **Elder Scrolls ** vibe to the art and flavor text, at least to my eye. They spend a lot of time talking up the art design and consistent ‘look’ of the new system, as if it were a flashy computer game. I’m a great fan of fantasy illustration; but if it were all that critical to the success of D&D, the game would never have gotten off the ground to begin with.

Halflings are no longer Gypsies as in 3rd Edition; instead, they are now Cajuns. They live on riverboats, favoring swamps and marshlands. The logic here is that the race never really had a distinctive “home turf” like elves and dwarves before, and this change is meant to rectify that. What a good idea that is. Of course halflings don’t have a home turf like elves and dwarves, because they were totally ripped off from Tolkien to begin with! There’s no vast folkloric tradition of legendary bog midgets. 4th edition halflings retain their oddly elongated, breadbox-shaped heads, and now their ears are perfectly rectangular (?!), so the catastrophically inbred, stunted bayou dweller image is complete. I hope players running a halfling remember to do the accent.

Since the game is so eager to distance itself from Tolkien, elves are no longer shorter than humans, but tall and slender just as in Tolkien. Also, instead of one race with several subraces (wood, grey, etc), there are now three distinct races of elves: generic elves who live in the forest, eladrin or “high elves,” who live on another plane of existence entirely, and drow. So that should clear that up.

(Why in the hell are drow so popular anyway? They live in the ground, hate everybody, and worship spiders. They’re like a race of insane bag ladies or something, living over a subway vent and naming the neighborhood rats. I just don’t get their appeal.)

One of the main problems with previous editions, we are told, is that the game never really established a clear character for humans. Just who are these “humans?” What are they like? What motivates them? 4th edition proposes that humans are inherently more corruptible than other races, which explains why they’re always fighting among themselves. The preview doesn’t really go into how this is expressed in game mechanics-- there’s not much detail of this sort anywhere in the book. Dice are barely mentioned at all. Again, I am briefly sad.

Anyhoo. Gnomes are being recast with a darker edge. Dwarves remain dwarves, albeit without darkvision (?). Also included are tieflings (half-demons) and dragonborn (half-dragons). Personally I question the need for two half-monstrous player races with horns, but whatever. What exactly is the high-fantasy tradition that includes heroic warriors with barbed tails and reptile heads? Meanwhile, half-orcs appear to be out entirely. Alas.

The preview goes on at length about the need to balance player classes so that they are all able to participate equally in all stages of an adventure. I don’t quite know what to say about that, as such number-crunching details always sort of took a back seat to the roleplaying part for me. I don’t really remember unbalanced classes being that much of a problem during our gaming sessions.

This philosophy of ‘balance’ will apparently manifest itself in some odd ways. The designers cite dungeon traps as an example of an unbalanced play element, since only rogues are equipped to deal with them. This will supposedly change in 4th edition, so that dungeons will now have traps with multiple elements that challenge all members of a party. So a single trap might have a mechanical feature for the thief to disarm, and meanwhile monsters are released from trapdoors for the others to fight while that’s happening, and so on. The unspoken corollary is that if you’re missing any classes in your party you’re all screwed, but thems the breaks, I guess.

Apparently the magic system is going to change radically. Wizards alone will have three types of spell effects available. There will be no formal “schools of magic:” instead, a wizard’s abilities will depend on what type of magic item they wield-- the choices being orb, staff, or wand. The book mentions in passing that arcane necromancy has been intentionally weakened in the interests of ‘balance.’ Screw you, WotC.

I’m depressed. I’m pretty sure I spent more on 3rd edition than everything that went before, though I hardly got any use out of it. This new game is unfamiliar territory again, and I’m not even the intended audience anymore. The book also contains multiple ads for “D&D Insider,” the online resource-- the designers go on and on about how the new system was designed with web support in mind. Apparently that’s another 10 bucks per month. I don’t see that happening.

Ah well, things change. I’m not in college anymore anyway. While I looked away, D&D passed me by. It was a good ride while it lasted. My dice and I have our memories.

Well, hey, it’s not over. That’s the one big advantage that DnD has over online games - WoW might change the whole system overnight. But DnD could bring out the My Little Pony expansion and you still have your old books.

Drow are more popular because people want to be The Guy. Why be some random, common elf, when you can be The Only Good Drow from a Race of Evil. Also Drizzt.

I quite like the sound of the halfling changes. The magic thing sounds pretty crap, though.

That paragraph is Reason #217 of Why My SDMB Subscription Is So Damn Worth It.

$20 for a preview? A 96-page, soft cover preview?! Well right there is a problem. If they want it to expand then they need to think in terms of one book for the whole system at $20, not gouging would be customers like that. Talk about fanbase exploitation.

Drop the worship spiders part and you’ve got a large portion of the D&D player base. :smiley:

One big reason Drow are popular is because they’re munchkins. I believe Icewind Dale II used fairly accurate D&D 3.0 rules, so this is what I’m basing it on; they get an extra 2 ability points AND magic resistance all at the cost of some equivalent levels. Plus, being the odd ones out in the surface probably elicits some sort of understanding from the stereotypical socially-excluded D&D’er. Extra points for being bad-ass and winning over or getting revenge on those snobby surface-dwellers, by super heroic deeds or evil dastardly ones (respectively), and you got yourself a nice vicarious hit.

One of the bad things about a Fighter from 3.0 is that he was bloody well useless in any situation that didn’t require him to break something or kill someone. That’s just bad game design.

That pretty much sounds like what we have now. Try running a game without a Cleric for example and see how far you get.

I hate Vancian magic so this gets a resounding hurrah from me.

Too many complaints of high level Wizards being head and shoulders above other classes.

I understand. The same thing happened to me between 3.0 and 3.5.

Marc

They were munchkins in 1st edition with the Unearthed Arcana as well so I doubt it’s changed much. They were basically elves that could dual-wield without penalty, had the detection bonuses of both regular elves and those of dwarves and received a slew of innate spell effects. They had some daylight fighting penalties which, naturally, tended to go ignored whenever possible.

I haven’t seriously looked at D&D since 1st ed AD&D (I have one or two 2nd ed sourcebooks) but half-dragons and box-headed halflings don’t make it sound as though I’ve missed much.

There’s something you need to remember abotu D&D. If it lives underground then it’s automatically a bad ass when compared to whatever surface cousins it has. This goes for dwarves and gnomes as well as elves.

Marc

I’m thinking you took a really cursory read of that book. But, addressing points in no particular order:

“anime-ization” is not the term you’re looking to for the art. That would be “dungeon-punk” – which was the art-style of 3.0 & 3.5, and has been the style of D&D art for quite some time (8 years, now). The definition of “anime” is grist for an entire other thread, but I’d apply it to art like, say, Exalted’s long before I’d describe D&D’s like that.

Swamp-dwelling halflings are Tolkien, not contra-Tolkien. You just lost geek points on that one. Sméagol and Déagol were water-dwelling halflings who lived in a matriarchal society that subsisted on fishing and trapping (apparently). So on that point, they’re going back to Tolkien roots.

But, I’d really dispute that Tolkien-reading dorks have been the main focus of sales for D&D for a long, long time. As anyone who has tried to shoehorn Middle-Earth into any D&D framework should know. The fit is just wretched.

Anyway. Too bad drow are so hot and popular – 'cause they’re not going to be in the PHB. They’re going to be in the Forgotten Realms books, which will be released at some indeterminate time in the future year (or later, maybe). There’ll be partial rules for drow and gnomes in the MM, apparently, but they’re not going to be as fully-supported as the other PC races. No doubt dual-scimitar wielders everywhere are weeping bitter tears over that.

The tieflings and dragonborn – as that book explains – are not half-demons and half-dragons. That was in 3.0/3.5. The high-fantasy tradition that includes heroic warriors with barbed tails and reptile heads would be… well, hell, just pick up some pulp fantasy. Lieber-reading dorks and Howard-reading dorks have, IMO, been a more targeted fanbase of D&D far moreso than the Tolkien-reading dorks. And Conan just doesn’t seem right without atavistic reptile-people around.

Unbalanced classes? Oh, yes. Play a low-level wizard with any other class, or any other class with a high-level wizard in the party – or clerics. Druids. Serious re-design was needed. And multi-classing needed fixing in a major way. It sucked.

And you complain about arcane necromancy being intentionally weakened… uh, it also sucked. They tried fixing it several times with new prestige and base classes (e.g., dread necromancer). It still sucked. Divine necromancy was where it was at. So they really didn’t need to weaken arcane necromancy; it was already pants.

They are apparently weakening all the “summon other combatant” types, though – of which necromancers are certainly a subset. Personally, I found those types of characters a big drag on time during combat (and overpowered at high levels when they’re summoning up things that can grant wishes and the like). But, eh. They’ll show up in later releases, just as the enchantment/charm types of characters will.

But, hey. They won’t be sending ninja to take away your 3.X D&D books. I can tell you this with confidence, as I still have mine. And my AD&D books. And my Basic Set D&D books. I even have my Deities and Demigods with the two forbidden pantheons, and my Gods, Demigods & Heroes – all perfectly well usable now. Just like I could drive a classic car if I wanted; although I prefer something a little more modern.

I had a Drow magic user theif way back in the day, as in before drizzt, he was chaotic evil and pretty much would have happily killed Drizzit with a knife in the back.

havent played in ages though.

Ideas about game design are advancing all the time, so I’m interested in what they come up with. But I’m afraid that in the meantime they’re taking too much glee in taking the axe to sacred cows. That they took gnomes out of the core book and put tieflings in suggests to me that they’re already off the rails, and this is coming from a guy who made space in his campaign setting for Muppets.

It was only recently that I realized that the previews they were promising to come out with would be actual books that they would actually charge money for. Wow. It’ll cost me a double-saw to read their rationalizations without any actual playable rules content. Does that come with a kick in the balls, or must I administer that myself?

I also love how one of their great improvements is to remove problematic rules like magic item pricing and character levels for monsters and replace them with absolutely nothing. Hey, geniuses! I don’t have to buy a new edition not to have any guidelines for how powerful a magic item is. I can just ignore the guidelines I’ve got! Here’s their advanced method, not prone to the errors of the previous methods: just sort of guestimate. Jesus Mary Fucking H Christ, I can see why these guys are professional game designers. It never even occurred to my dumb amateur ass to just make up some fucking numbers and hope it all works out.

As I said, I’m interested to see what the new D&D is going to be like, but at this point I have very little interest in switching.

Well… yeah? An in-depth review would have required me to actually BUY the thing. I have been known to spend money on D&D in my day, but I’m not so far gone that I’m going to pay WotC 20 bucks for the privilege of owning an advertisement for their future products. I believe that advertising is traditionally supposed to work the other way around? THEY are supposed to pay for their ads, not ME. They get their money back later when I am enticed to purchase their exciting new product. Which ain’t about to happen.

If you say so. The multiply layered costumes and ostentatiously non-medieval European-styled attire say “anime” to me, though the influence is not as directly referenced as with Exalted.

Don’t you patronize me. If you want to go that route, then they never LEFT Tolkien roots did they? 1st and 2nd ed. halflings were Shire hobbits, and 3rd and 3.5 were early Third Age migratory hobbits. So why bother to take them out of the Shire in the first place? Why screw with the archetype of reluctantly curious adventurer?

How has D&D distanced itself from the other iconic Tolkien races? Elves are still Tolkien elves, close to nature, except for the REALLY magic elves who live in Valinor-- excuse me, Feyland; they’re even MORE Tolkienesque now that the height restriction has been addressed. Dwarves still live in the mountains, children of the god of craft, stouthearted workers of the mine and forge.

Yet halflings have had to endure having their skulls being forcibly reshaped to resemble freak show pinheads; they’ve been driven out of their bucolic communities and recast as untrustworthy, schizophrenic Gypsies. Now they have to live in a swamp, forced to act out the role of faux-Kender kleptomaniac riverboat gamblers. This is like insisting that dwarves are really clean-shaven, island-dwelling teetotalers, or elves are comically graceless, paunchy city-dwellers. Halflings get no respect, I tell you. They get no respect.

Well, they’re humanoids with draconic and demonic features. The detail that they’re no longer directly descended from human/monstrous couplings is beside my point. I expect that the change was made to provide an excuse for unified communities to produce the sexy demonically/draconically themed weapons and armor.

I am AWARE of that. And yet they did it ANYWAY! They went and made arcane necromancy EVEN MORE PANTS! WHY?! WHY?! CLERICS ALREADY GET EVERYTHING! WHY?!

Look, all I want is an arcane necromancer that doesn’t make me sad. Necromancers are supposed to tamper in Gods domain, not worship and pay homage to them! In my opinion, 2nd edition was on the right track-- divine worshippers of evil gods aren’t necromancers, they’re death priests. I just want the freedom to toy with the forces of life and death. Is that really too much to ask?

I understand “Swamp Hobbit” was Francis Marion’s nickname when he played D&D in high school.

Anyway, the last time I gave TSR money was for a 2nd-edition Monster Manual.

The ironic thing is that while I think the new changes are crap, I like the impulse. It’s just that WotC’s execution bites the big one.

They can’t make up their minds what they want on anything at all. Is DnD going to be “generic fantasy rules” for playing all sorts of settings? WIll it be specifically for traditional settings they paid TSR for and immediately dumped? Will it be for some custom settings they themselves made, but never properly supported, and it wasn’t really different anyhow? (Yes, that’s Eberron, which I hate with the fury of the fires of a thousand suns.)

They don’t know.

There rules now suggest a very specific setting, but it’s not one that anyone, to my knowledge, has ever played. Meanwhile, they seem to be trying to stuff all existing official settings into their new straightjacket, despite this not making the slightest sense.

If they’d just make an effin’ decision and live with it, all would be well. But they don’t, and they’ll waffle and wiggle and waver back and forth until it becomes another muddle. They’ve got a bloated staff, and they keep trying to stuff - not just crunchy bits, but BAD crunchy bits - into every book they release, until the tide of prestige classes threatens overhwelm the planet (Good God! Faerun alone had a couple hundred offical PrC’s and the implication of thousands more!)

Actually, it works out pretty well. You’d be surprised at how easy it is to get by without one. The problem is that everyone treats them like a heal-bot, which is actually their least effective role.

But if everyone takes the right stuff, well, a Wand of Cure Light Wounds is cheap enough that any party should be able to afford a dozen, it’s efficient enough that people can and will make them, and it pretty much takes care of the entire healing situation. Oh sure, you might want one or two high-level (for whatever level you are) healing thingies to back you up, but this strategy is very good at ensuring things don’t get that bad int he first place.

Try it sometime.

Quick reply: I always liked visualizing 3E halflings as the ultimate urban sort. Small, vicious, and fast talking. This… not so handy. Frankly, I’d rather gypsy halflings on the road than gypsy halflings on the river. The carts are more interesting.

They didn’t take gnomes out of the first book out of glee over axing sacred cows (of which, there are many to be axed, IMO). They did it because they didn’t know what to do with the damn little things. They either turn up as elves-lite or dwarves-lite or steampunk mechanics like WoW. So they’re waiting 'till they figure out what to do with them. Sounds kinda like they’ll be Feywild connected, somehow.

Eh? All the vague previews are blurring together with all the hysteric assumptions being made all over the Internets… but I thought sure they had some guidelines planned…

EnWorld says there’ll be no rules for DM’s making up magic items (which, really, is nothing new aside from scroll or wand guidelines). But there’s this Design & Development article on Magic Item Levels, so there’ll be some guidelines even if they didn’t make it into Races & Classes.

I suspect the change was made because the designers are for some reason squicky about assumptions of rape (as with the half-orc), and seem to think that no human would willingly pair off with an Evil creature like an evil dragon or a demon.

But, I’d rather the emo tieflings than the emo drow.

Clerics also are not going to be getting the necromancy schtick. Necromancers are being planned for future release, once they figure out how to make it work. As with other classes such as bards and illusionists, apparently.

In the end, though, it’s all just pre-release hype from WotC. We haven’t seen anything substantive on what 4e will be like. Some people are buying into the hype, and either rejoycing or raging as they deem fit. It’s months yet before the thing’ll be out. No need to panic about the sky falling until then. And even then, if we don’t like it… we won’t be buying it, and WotC will be out some cash while we still play 3.X or AD&D or whatever.

That was pretty funny in a geeky historical kind of way.

Marc

There is no historical or even literary precedent for gnomes the way that D&D presents them except for D&D, but it did set up certain expectations that they’re now trashing.

Ala Andy Collins:

"We tried to fool ourselves into the fact that there was a hard pricing, but we started recognizing that with MIC, that we should look at them more holistically. There will not be magic item creation rules for DM’s as we realize that as professional game designers we don’t even get it right every time. We’re going to give you lots and lots of examples and suggest that you build it, test it, etc. "

I realize that this is anecdotal but I cannot recall seeing anyone playing a gnome character since the end of the Thief/Illusionist multiclass from many years ago. On the other hand it seems as though you can’t swing a dead cat in a D&D campaign without hitting a half-orc so I’m a little surprised they won’t be included in the initial release of the next edition.

I don’t mind Tieflings being a base race but I would have preferred it if they weren’t an entire civilization of their own. Those Dragon-Kin I can do without but those lizardy non-human types are popular in some computer RPGs and MMORPGs.

I’m not going to be buying 4E when it comes out. As part of my new years resolution I promised not to buy any type of games in 2008.

Marc

Ah well, I’ll always have 2.0