Pim Fortuyn, the openly gay right-wing extremist, was shot six times today in Amsterdam, including at least one shot to the head. Fortuyn is expected to die, as his wounds are highly severe. The culprit fled the scene of the crime.
Reports now says that he is dead, although this has not, apparently, been officially confirmed yet. There is also a thread in Great Debates re. Fortuyn.
and in general questions. and yes, he’s dead.
I’m relieved to say the killer is caught and is a Dutch white male.
True. If he was a Muslim Turk, that would only add fuel to the “immigrants are the root of crime” assertion.
I actually resent the label “extreme right-wing”. Fortuyn was not a racist, despite what the press labeled him.
The stupidest thing is now that he has been killed by an extreme left-wing follower to stop fascism. I thought fascism consisted of supressing people’s believes. How liberal or socialist can you be when you kill people to supress their opinion.
This was a black day in the Dutch history of democracy !
Was Fortuyn a racist? I doubt it. But at the very least, he was someone who perfectly knew how to work a crowd. Triggering knee-jerk reactions about immigrants with cleverly worded speeches was one of his main fortes.
However, his history -ranging from teaching Marxist Sociology in the seventies in Groningen to flirtations with all political parties (from left to right) in order to get a seat in the House of Parliament - indicates that if anything, he was a narcist rather than a racist. Fortuyn wanted to be prime minister, and he wanted it bad. He realised all too well that speaking openly about the issues that mainstream Dutch politicians have covered in PC excuses for way too long WILL get you results right now in the Netherlands. And so he used exactly that, just as he used Leefbaar Nederland to get on a list (ANY list), after which he deliberately forced a break with that party by suggesting we scratch Article One of our Constitution in order to facilitate the discrimination of Muslims (he said he didn’t want Muslims to enter our country any more, because “their culture was a backward one”).
His left-and-right swerving during the LPF campaign over the last months only reinforced the idea in my head: Fortuyn not only didn’t have a party program or fixed ideology, he blatantly twisted and turned his opinion just so the maximum voter potential could be achieved.
A demagogue. A populist. Not a politician after my heart, not by a long shot. The only thing I can genuinely credit him for is spicing up an otherwise rather dull campaigning culture: his strongly worded opinions forced other politicians to be outspoken too rather than quick to hide behind vague terminology and overly PC terms. His presence meant that previously untouched topics were addressed. He stirred the pot, and he did it very effectively. The inablity of the current mainstream to cope with such an unexpected adversary only added to his number of seats in the polls. He was a very skilled debater - it was interesting to watch these previously unheard of clashes, even if I often couldn’t disagree more with his views.
I hope I have sufficiently explained that Pim Fortuyn was not the man I would have voted for on May 15.
Having said that, I am outraged. Outraged, because as it was said so eloquently by Ad Melkert (leader of the Labour Party), “this country has lost its innocence”. Apparently, some fucking idiot deemed it necessary to cold-bloodedly KILL Fortuyn, for no other reason than disliking his views.
This is one of the oldest democracies in the world, and it took a serious blow yesterday. I am pleased to learn the election will be held as planned on May 15, as I too think a democracy should not yield to violence. I do fear, however, that the LPF is going to amass large amounts of sympathy votes, rendering them more seats in the House than they can possibly fill with their (let’s not deny it) underskilled and unexperienced party.
My thoughts are with Fortuyn’s relatives and friends.
“Respect for each other means you fight with words, not bullets”
– Wim Kok, demissionary PM of the Netherlands, in his speech last night
Thanks for the information, Coldfire. I heard on the radio this morning that they had someone in custody. Is there any evidence of his motivation yet?
He’s a 32 year old man from Harderwijk. Supposedly, he’s a extreme left wing activist who was known to the authorities, although he’s never been aprehended before.
I just received an e-mail from a friend of mine, who says he has his identity (based on a few hints in Dutch sources), and a link to a profile page on a website for a rather radical animal rights movement.
However, I shall not post the links until the man’s identity has been confirmed.
His motivation? Beats the shit out of me. An unhappy childhood will be one of them, no doubt. :rolleyes:
I’m shocked as hell that anything like this could happen in the Netherlands. Shocked as hell.
Uh, why? What makes it so shocking that this happened in the Netherlands? Crackpots and lunatics are everywhere.
How does immigration into the Netherlands work, anyhow? I asked about it once, many years ago, and was informed flat out that it was “not possible”. Granted, I wrote my letter in English, but I thought my Dutch heritage might work in my favor.
Yet obviously people do immigrate there, and evidently people who can claim far less than even the smattering of Dutch language skills that I possess.
Well, basically a lot of people apply for political asylum here. Most will claim that they’re political refugees. In some cases, they are actually here for economical reasons, and are in no immediate danger in their own country. Then, pending their application process, they are housed by the state. Since the immigration services are severy understaffed, the procedures take very long.
Immigration into the Netherlands for someone from, say, the US, IS possible. It’s not harder than it is for me to move to the US: you either need an employer that will sponsor your immigration process, or you need to marry a clog boy/girl.
UncleBeer: I don’t know if this occurence happening in my country is “shocking” per se, but the Dutch are known in Europe for their relatively peaceful demeanor and levelheadedness. Crime rates are relatively low, guns are things the police owns, and if you want to take out a politician, the traditional cream pie was the weapon of choice.
Until yesterday. I guess I can put it this way: would it have surprised you more or less if this had happened in Italy?
I thought that was the French. No? That’s not right?
Sure, I’d have been less surprised had it happened in Italy. But Tansu engaged such superlatives, I thought it worth commenting on. Besides, I read that book you recommended, The UnDutchables. Seems people who like to argue about their government as much as that book claimed, wouldn’t necessarily be assumed to be peaceful and levelheaded. Not to mention the folks that founded on of the most in-your-face cities in the world, NYC. Guess I’m a provincial American though, never having been to Europe. I gotta get out more; this is news to me.
Oh, if we’re talking about the past, we were a bunch of violent oppressors alright. What other countries twice the size of New Jersey can you think of that have invented Apartheid, fought naval battles with half of Europe (and beyond), shipped a considerable chunck of all the slaves to the New World, raped countries like Indonesia, South Africa, Suriname (we should have kept New Amsterdam. Talk about a dumb trade!), and occupied vast amounts of colonial grounds up until 50 years ago (hell, to a small extend even today)?
But times have changed: we’re really quite a peaceful bunch now. Must be the weed.
I was referring to the reputation that the Dutch have for being peaceful and somehow more mature and civilized than some other European countries. Unfortunately I did so in a ridiculous and hysterical post. Sorry all.
You’ve no need of an apology, Tansu. I was merely requesting more information and in less than tactful manner. Information, which Coldfire has provided. I wasn’t aware of the current Dutch reputation for peacefulness and rationality among Europeans. Perhaps it is I that owes you an apology; it appears my poor phrasing led to a misunderstanding of my post.
Perhaps. I’m certainly more grouchy and hot-tempered these days than I was back when I smoked dope about a thousand years ago. At least I am judging from the interminable strings of curses I hear around the office issued from my cakehole.