Aren’t they a curse? - little fat old people, unsteadily blocking the cycle-paths which should be for proper “push” cyclists. These bastard-contraptions, not bikes and not motor-bikes, get more and more powerful, attaining speeds up to 20 mph, their hapless drivers slowly turning the pedals and believing they are by some form of osmosis through connecting with real cyclists, keeping themselves fit.
So what are these; Schrodinger’s cyclists? Simultaneously blocking the cycle-paths and hurtling along at the break neck speed of 20 mph? When you figure out where the waveform collapses let me know and I’ll give you my opinion.
They are wonderful. Compared to cars, they take up less space on the road, take less space to park, and are far less likely to kill other people. And studies show they are good exercise. Not as good as non-electric bikes, but far better than driving.
I ride non-electric bikes myself, but I’m more than happy to share paths and bike lanes with e-bikes.
I realize there are also “electric bikes” that are basically electric scooters and don’t involve any pedaling. Maybe those don’t belong on multi-use paths, but they are still better than cars.
I ran this subject out a little while ago in this thread if you’re interested.
The thing that amazes me is how fast the switch to E-bikes is happening. The danger is that existing cycle paths are being swamped by people who basically don’t know how to cycle (together) and who are able to go far too fast for their skill set. My overall reaction is concern and dismay. I assume you are describing the German experience, Casparlatete - how bad has it got? Note that (see old thread) E-bike sales have now outstripped proper bike sales in the Netherlands.
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And what do you expect “little fat old people” to do, especially if they’re incapable of driving or walking? Should they just stay at home and starve?
15mph limit to pedal-assist ebikes in the UK (ie the assist cuts out at this point). Actually seems too low for commuting, although I guess you can go faster, you’re just pedalling a heavy bike.
Trouble is 15 is more than enough for off-road riding so if the limit is upped to 25 or something we’ll have folk tear-arsing round the trails which will cause loads of argy-bargy and confrontation.
I do like the idea of them for commuting - said on the other thread I’d be open to the idea of getting one in a couple of years when they improve / come down in price.
Currently they are just another manufacturer drive to sell another product, look at the recent developments and you see ultra wide tyres - balloon bikes, 10/11/12 sprockets, changes to mtb wheels from 26 inch to 27.5 inch to 29 inch and off road bikes are now sporting single chainrings with 12 sprockets instead of the previous triple chainset with maybe 8 or 10 sprockets.
Add in the drive toward electronic gear changers - which are dedicated only to a specific number of sprockets - started off being made for 11 sprockets and now 12 sprocket are being marketed.
You have disc brakes being heavily promoted for race bikes,
All this stuff seems to have a sales life of around 3-4 years after which you can only get spares which are expensive and sometimes hard to find - and none of it is compatible with each other - so if you want to upgrade from 10 speed to 12 speed then you have to buy all the gear mechs, gear changers, probably change the brake levers because the gear changers are part of the brake lever, new chains and new chainsets, and differeant maintenance tools - result is that its not worth trying to upgrade when parts wear out, you need to replace the whole machine. The thinner/ narrower sprockets and chains wear out rather faster too
Currently its just about making stuff redundant as soon as possible in order to sell the next thing.
Electric bikes are just a way of trying to rope another customer base into a planned obsolescence loop, but this one is slightly different because it is likely to have unintended consequences - such as a possible need to road liability insurance and other legal considerations, it will tempt in folk with a different mindset and it will also feed into the push to force people away from fossil fuels.Electric bikes will not stay as they are, and will be developed more and more.
Quite how it will all work out is another matter, but in essence it completes the transformation of cycling as a sport and a lifestyle into a consumer appliance and perhaps badge envy - just as we have in motor vehicles.
Is Cas = Castleford Dave? Because that’s a quintessentially Yorkshire post, but let’s not compare a MOTOR ON YOUR BIKE with an extra sprocket on the drivetrain, because that would be silly.
You can talk about planned obscelence, empty innovation etc in the bike industry and I doubt you’ll have anyone disagreeing with you - we all know the score. But e-bikes are different gravy - clearly represent genuine change in how, where, and what riding means to people and transport at large in society.
Bill Door; I don’t think Schroedinger rode a bike, - Einstein certainly couldn’t drive a car (or swim). The problem here in Germany is that not only are the dedicated cycle paths being used more and more by these tubby wobbling ‘athletes’, but they are now forming into groups, or God forbid, ‘clubs’. I encountered yesterday about 20 on a narrow bridge, and as Claudius, (keen cyclist) said; “When E-bikes come, they come not single spies but in battalions”
The idea that these people are in any way keeping themselves fit is an illusion. You only have to look at the kit they wear; anoraks and long trousers, scarves even! and compare it to us, heaving and sweating in minimal attire to see that.
I own an e-bike myself. Being in the Phoenix area, I have no desire to ‘pedal’ my bike to work at 110 F plus for 3-4 months a year. Bicyclists who pedal can, and do, pass me even though; supposedly I’m an out-of-control speed freak on my 20 mph(Max. governed speed) bike. Do you folks prefer I drive a car? BTW, I stop at ALL stop signs and obey all laws when riding. Do you? I regularly see pedal cyclists ‘blow-through’ stop signs and lights to maintain their momentum.
ohh so anyone using an e-bike is a poser ruining the only true and correct way to be on a bicycle …i get ya now …
So, people can finally ride bikes for transport and recreation without the cultural baggage (stereotypes of cycling enthusiasts)? Excellent! Sounds like a win-win situation all around.
I read stuff like this an it makes me glad I’ve hung onto the same old coaster-brake bike for the last 40 years. It ain’t cool and it ain’t the fastest, but it seems a whole lot less bother…
SCR4 My view is that e-bikes will make a change to cycling, but the change may well not be predictable - yes it may get more folk out there, and perhaps it will enable some folk to ride where they just did not have the physical capabilities.
I do think it could usher in a huge change in outlook, and I imagine there is the possibility that it may encourage a more utilitarian approach to personal transport, something along the lines of the current outlook in the Netherlands - where two wheeled vehicles are largely just a convenient way of getting about, with few pretenses to image.
The e-bike will develop its own image and personality, and really it depends upon how much it takes off. The weather in UK works against it to some degree and our car culture is deeply ingrained - pretty much all of our town infrastructure is geared toward cars, such as secure parking, shopping, links to transport hubs, and the e-bike kind of falls between motorised transport and cycling. Not quite fast enough for the open road and legally limited in pace to a level lower then pedal cycles can often achieve - but I think that the marketing pressure will be on to turn e-bikes into something quite a lot faster - but not as fast as a full on motorcycle.
There will be deaths from e-bike riding, just as there are from any other form of road transport - and no doubt concerns will be expressed about driving standards and what should be done about it. In some places e-bikes will be perceived as a nuisance, just as skateboards were when they were new and then local authorities will take ill-informed measures to deal with it, exactly as they have done with lots of other things.
Personally I am neutral, they are not for me at the moment but I see more and more of them about, maybe it’ll blow over and maybe it will mushroom. You do see them being used in trails and the national park areas as a faster way of hiking, rather than an easier way of cycling - which is a development in itself.
Well they won’t be fat for long now, will they? 
I have no dog in this fight overall but anyhthing that gets people off the couch and in the open air is a good thing AFAIC.
I also think they’re great.
We bought one because we have two small children. A bike big enough to haul both of them is way too heavy for my wife to rid around our (moderately) hilly city.
An e-bike means they’re outside and she’s getting exercise instead of being in a car for every trip.
I am fine with banning electric bikes from (most) off-road situations. I’m fine with speed limits. But insisting on some kind of cycle purity instead of making it much easier for lots of people to get around without a car is a huge misstep.
I have a pedal-assist e-bike and I love it. As far as I’m concerned, if you don’t like e-bikes, you can lump it, purity pony. I got mine mainly as a commuting option and I’m biking to work about 4x more than when I had a regular bike. I wish I lived in an area where the weather was more bike friendly so I could bike more. It has completely changed my biking habits and I’m absolutely getting more exercise than I did before, as well as keeping another car off the road. Long live my abso-fucking-lutely fabulous e-bike!
Treppenwitz nails it absolutely perfectly. People on eBikes accelerate faster and corner far worse/wider than they should (or believe that they do)-- while also riding in the middle of the bike lane and cutting corners and bends. I have never seen an eBike rider and thought she/he knows what they are doing. 90+% of ebike riders are completely ignorant of how atrocious their riding ability and “courtesy” is.
ebikes should stay on roads and stay off bike paths- due primarily to their handling and driving characteristics as they are more like a motorcycle than an average cyclist. I think they should similarly be licensed as such.
Sincerely, Disheavel #320 lbs (including bike and gear) on wheels with a 20-22 mph pace over my 20 mile daily commute
A friend has an e-bike and he thinks it’s wonderful. He’s partially disabled - he can’t walk very far - so it allows him to get out and about when using a car would be inappropriate or unnecessary.
The 15 mph limit isn’t really a problem for him and would it really be a problem in cities like London?
Hyperbolic nonsense. Never? 90%? If that were true there would be chaos on the paths all the time. Exaggeration doesn’t help.
On my commute, I’ve never seen an e-bike rider get in an accident or even come close. There. My anecdote cancels yours out. 
If there is some legit data showing that e-bikes are more dangerous, I’ll happily review it, though.
(Note that when I speak of e-bikes, I mean the pedal assist kind, not the throttle kind, which are basically scooters and a whole other story).