Early instances of 'Ruby Begonia?" (pre-1960)

[Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker]

Flip Wilson in one of his comedy routines would say, sounding like The Kingfish from “Amos ‘n’ Andy” (or possibly Dewey ‘Pigmeat’ Markham), “Do da name ‘Ruby Begonia’ strike a familya note?”

Most people assumed that it was used in “Amos ‘n’ Andy” at some point, but that’s just not the case. Plus, since there was already a character names Ruby, it might have been appoint of confusion.

One of the foremost authorities on old time radi, and “Amos ‘n’ Andy” in particular,(one Elizabeth McLeod) opined that it might have been the punchline from some long-forgotten Chitlin Circuit joke, and Flip just breathed new life into it.

So the GQ: What are the instances of uses of the phrase “Ruby Begonia” (not relating to flowers) predating 1960?

[samclem]

@Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker

Flip Wilson in one of his comedy routines would say, sounding like The Kingfish from “Amos ‘n’ Andy” (or possibly Dewey ‘Pigmeat’ Markham), “Do da name ‘Ruby Begonia’ strike a familya note?”

Most people assumed that it was used in “Amos ‘n’ Andy” at some point, but that’s just not the case. Plus, since there was already a character names Ruby, it might have been appoint of confusion.

One of the foremost authorities on old time radi, and “Amos ‘n’ Andy” in particular,(one Elizabeth McLeod) opined that it might have been the punchline from some long-forgotten Chitlin Circuit joke, and Flip just breathed new life into it.

So the GQ: What are the instances of uses of the phrase “Ruby Begonia” (not relating to flowers) predating 1960?

Not that I could find using my databases. Yet.

Can you pin down exactly WHEN Flip Wilson first said it?

[Kent_Clark]

After scrounging around for awhile, I found a novel set in 1926 where a singer in a Harlem speakeasy starts her act with a crack about Ruby Begonia.

Granted, the novel was written AFTER Flip Wilson, but a Cotton Club-type origin at least* sounds* plausible.

[CalMeacham]

Flip Wilson’s show started in 1970. I don’t know when he started that routine.

Google N-gram has the first use of “Ruby Begonia” (not in Wilson’s show) in 1971.

a quick internet search shows people attributing it to Amos and Andy or to Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-in, but I haven’t yet turned up a pre-Flip Wilson source. I suspect he’s the real origin.

This site in particular has n entry from someone who claims to be familiar with the Amos and Andy shows:

I know for a fact that the term Ruby Begonia was never used in any of the TV show episodes of Amos and Andy. I know every one of the available episodes by heart, word for word. I also have never heard the term used in the radio episodes. Of course, people think they may have heard it but I think they are confused with the fact that Amos’s wife was named Ruby and you hear her name mentioned. Ruby’s maiden name was Taylor. So despite people’s perception, the term Ruby Begonia was never used in any of the Amos and Andy episodes. TV or radio. I challenge anyone to name the specific episode they heard Ruby Begonia mentioned on radio or the televised episodes.

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=8108;article=5779;
This, again, would support the Flip Wilson origin. Maybe he was simply making up a name that recalled that show.

[samclem]

There are many many newspaper articles in 1968 saying that Sammy Davis Jr. had used it on Laugh In. Davis also used, according to the article, Here comes the Judge. I’m sure he did because I watched the show religiously.

The article said they were from old burlesque routines.

[CalMeacham]

@samclem

There are many many newspaper articles in 1968 saying that Sammy Davis Jr. had used it on Laugh In. Davis also used, according to the article, Here comes the Judge. I’m sure he did because I watched the show religiously.

The article said they were from old burlesque routines.

Which article? Can you cite?

[Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker]

Possibly it was Sammy, but I know we had an old 8-track tape of one of Flip’s comedy routines, and that’s where I recall hearing it. But I could be conflating Flip and Sammy, and maybe it was on Laugh-In.

Edit: And, I, too, have seen every available ep of the “A&A” TV program, and can attest that it wasn’t used therein. And I’ll trust Elizabeth McLeod that it never occurred in the radio series.

[samclem]

There was a syndicated column called “TV Scout.” No idea who wrote it. People would send in questions about tv shows and personalities and he(she?) would answer. The 1968 question and answer was

THE JUDGE–When Sammy Davis was on Laugh-In, he said “Do the name Ruby Begonia ring a bell?” and “Here comes the Judge.” Are these phrases out of a play or movie? What’s the hidden meaning?

–No hidden meaning. They are from old burlesque routines. They were catch phrases used repeatedly in a skit that led up to the final outcome.

So, no source for the information.

[Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker]

Buckwheat used the phrase “Here come Da Judge” in the “Our Gang” short “All About Hash” (1940), but I’m guessing that the phrase was already in use.

[TriPolar]

Must be nearly forty years since I heard Sammy say ‘Ruby Begonia’ but I recalled it immediately. Just one of the those beautiful sounding phrases. Sammy probably heard it many times growing up on the road with his father and uncle. It carries the racist undertones of the Amos and Andy era though, not the kind of humor fit for mainstream anymore, on Laugh In I suppose he was using it satirically. Wouldn’t surprise me if Flip Wilson used it also.

ETA: Looking it up I see Will Mastin was not Sammy’s actual blood related uncle, but a close friend of his father.

ETA2: Now I see this is GQ, sorry to just offer an opinion.

[RealityChuck]

@Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker

Buckwheat used the phrase “Here come Da Judge” in the “Our Gang” short “All About Hash” (1940), but I’m guessing that the phrase was already in use.

Pigmeat Markham used it as his catchphrase; he was in vaudeville in the 20s and 30s. He claimed he started using it in 1928.

After Davis used it on Laugh-In, the show added Markham to the cast.

[Peanuthead]

I’m pretty sure I heard Dean Martin use the Ruby Begonia phrase on his show. 1965 - 1974. He probably picked it up from Sammy Davis Jr. as they were close friends. And as mentioned above Sammy most likely got it from and old Vaudeville routine.

[Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker]

So, in summary:

There are no instances of the phrase ‘Ruby Begonia’ predating the 1960s.

Sammy Davis Jr. might have heard it in some old vaudeville/Chitlin Circuit sort of routines, but there’s nothing to corroborate that.

It’s also possible that he just made it up, but no indication of that either.

I think that’s about as close as we’re going to get to an answer.

Thanks, all.

[cwstudios]

I am not sure if Flip Wilson ever used it but I it was however used frequently by members of the Rat Pack and friends, including on Rowan and Martin’s Laughin (when Sammy used it and I believe Dick Martin as well) and by other members of the rat pack including Dean Martin. Here is an example of it being used during one of the Dean Martin Roasts, the roast is of Sammy Davis Jr and Frank Gorshin (effectively a member of the Rat Pack, he hung with them in the early years and they were very close) using it during his set. He’s doing an impression of Burt Lancaster and closes his set with it, (I’ve set the link to start right as he’s about to say it)

- YouTube

It has something to do with the Rat Pack, possibly an inside joke. I asked my Parents as a boy when they used it on Laughin and they didn’t know.

[mikecurtis]

the Flip Wilson album The Devil Made Me Buy This Dress from 1970 has a track entitled Ruby Begonia. so far I cant find that track online.

mc

[samclem]

So, the earliest known use that we have so far is 1968, Sammy Davis Jr. on Laugh In.

[Knowed_Out]

@mikecurtis

the Flip Wilson album The Devil Made Me Buy This Dress from 1970 has a track entitled Ruby Begonia. so far I cant find that track online.

mc

I used to have that album when I was little. I remember there was a Ruby Begonia track, and the punchline was “Do Ruby ring a bell?” I don’t remember what the joke was, but it might have been similar to “No, but his face rings a bell.”

[samclem]

I just found something short of a smoking gun, but it may provide more information than we have so far.

An article in the Detroit Free Press dated 28 September 1973. In the Action Line column, there is a question thus

Who is Ruby Begonia? Flip Wilson asked if her name rang a bell in one of his comedy routines. It did for me but I can’t remember where I heard it. P.C. Detroit

And the writer answered by saying

Ruby was the feisty fiancée of Andrew Brown, second half of the Amos 'n Andy comedy team. Flip borrowed phrase(sic) from Sammy Davis Jr., who used it as a throwaway line on an album he recorded with Count Basie in 1966. Joe Grant of Sammy Davis Jr. Enterprises in Los Angeles told Action Line comedy one-liner came from a discussion between Andy and Kingffish Stevens concerning their romantic involvements. Andy shrugs off his entanglements with Geraldine, Josephine, Delilah and Dinah–but when Kingfish bellows “Do the name Ruby Begonia strike a familiar note?,” Andy admits in a trembling voice that he made a promise of marriage to her “during a moment of weakness.” Use of Ruby’s name as a laugh getter on the Wilson show is actually second rebirth of its popularity. Phrase was slipped into a couple of “Laugh-In” routines a few years before Flip started using it.

So, possibly, if you listened to every radio show and every tv show of Amos 'n Andy, you might hear it.

[Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker]

Thanks. Interesting.

[markn_1]

@samclem

Ruby was the feisty fiancée of Andrew Brown, second half of the Amos 'n Andy comedy team.

According to the citation in reply #4 upthread, Amos’ wife was named Ruby née Taylor. Wikipedia agrees with this. I find it hard to believe that Andy had a fiancée with the same name as Amos’ wife. I think the writer of the Detroit Free Press article has made the same mistake that was being discussed in reply #4 above, along with the additional mistake of attaching Ruby to the wrong husband.