Apparently, it didn’t do much, at least in Australia.
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]
This is possibly the most rational suggestion thus far.
A shortish while later, the concert on Kakrafoon reached an unexpected climax.
The black ship with its single morose occupant had plunged on schedule into the nuclear furnace of the sun. Massive solar flares licked out from it millions of miles into space, thrilling and in a few cases spilling the dozen or so Flare Riders who had been coasting close to the surface of the sun in anticipation of the moment.
Moments before the flare light reached Kakrafoon the pounding desert cracked along a deep faultline. A huge and hitherto undetected underground river lying far beneath the surface gushed to the surface to be followed seconds later by the eruption of millions of tons of boiling lava that flowed hundreds of feet into the air, instantaneously vaporizing the river both above and below the surface in an explosion that echoed to the far side of the world and back again.
Those — very few — who witnessed the event and survived swear that the whole hundred thousand square miles of the desert rose into the air like a mile-thick pancake, flipped itself over and fell back down. At that precise moment the solar radiation from the flares filtered through the clouds of vaporized water and struck the ground.
A year later, the hundred thousand square mile desert was thick with flowers. The structure of the atmosphere around the planet was subtly altered. The sun blazed less harshly in the summer, the cold bit less bitterly in the winter, pleasant rain fell more often, and slowly the desert world of Kakrafoon became a paradise. Even the telepathic power with which the people of Kakrafoon had been cursed was permanently dispersed by the force of the explosion.
A spokesman for Disaster Area — the one who had had all the environmentalists shot — was later quoted as saying that it had been "a good gig".
–The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, Douglas Adams
Stranger
[/QUOTE]
I’m totally in awe. :eek: I ALWAYS wanted to work that into a post, but never could figure out how…
-XT
[QUOTE=ivylass]
Apparently, it didn’t do much, at least in Australia.
[/QUOTE]
I was that close to deliberately leaving ALL the lights, TVs, computers, DVD players, radios, stereos, et al on at work that night, just to spite the tree-hugging lefties who try and foist this shit on us. I didn’t however, more because of the fire risk rather than any desire to help the planet.
There are a billion Chinese and a billion Indians- not to mention pretty much everyone in Africa- who aren’t having a bar of this “Earth Hour” shit. In fact, the whole Earth Hour thing makes me so angry I can’t think of a civil way to express my displeasure, so I shall simply say that it’s a bunch of Tree-Hugging Hippie Crap and its mere existence offends me greatly.
[QUOTE=ralph124c]
This is the type of stupid “feel good” meaningless nonsense that the Al Gore set likes. It is like Al himself-who jets off to some conference to decry America’s energy wastage-while not a word about HIS extravagance-he probably uses as much energy as 25 Chinese families. :smack:
[/QUOTE]
Why don’t you figure out how much energy his various efforts have saved the world and post back when you have the accounting worked out.
As if someone who uses energy isn’t allowed to talk about energy. I guess we’re only supposed to listen to the mad hermit in the hills or something…
[QUOTE=muttrox]
Why don’t you figure out how much energy his various efforts have saved the world and post back when you have the accounting worked out.
[/QUOTE]
You mean like how he’s sold himself “carbon credits”? How do those things work again? They sound a lot like buying indulgences from the church.
That’s obviously not what I mean. You seem confused about what carbon credits are. Maybe you could ask generally on a message board somewhere.
[QUOTE=muttrox]
Why don’t you figure out how much energy his various efforts have saved the world
[/QUOTE]
I would be interested to know that. My guess is that it’s negligible either way.
I would also be interested to know what kind of impact Elliot Spitzer has had on prostitution in New York. Again, I would guess that his effect has been negligible.
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
To offer a contrarian view: This does seem to me to be trying to take inspiration from the Clearwater on the Hudson people. The first step is to start a dialog, to get people aware of the problem, and to work on solutions. Gestures can be used to start the process, even something as fundamentally silly as sailing a sloop up and down a river.
The problem I have with these international initiatives is that by being international, they lack any kind of local focus for long-term, worthwhile changes. Publicity stunts are not necessarily worthless - if the attention that they generate is used for something. I’ll continue my Doper crushing by saying that the suggestions that Una Perrson made upthread would be excellent ways to do something worthwhile. And while I don’t think that it’s impossible for the public at large to face problems, draft solutions and implement them, I do believe that if one is going to make a publicity stunt to generate attention to one’s cause there is a good deal of benefit to having a single, concrete, and simply explained, proposed change for the target audience of the publicity.
Trying to get people to “think about energy use and how to minimize it” is not that. Suggesting that they “think about reducing energy use by such measures as installing programmable thermostats” could be. And lobbying for tax credits for people to buy and install such thermostats would be even better - because for every person who will voluntarily change because it’s a good idea, there seem to be ten more who won’t change a thing til they have an immediate financial benefit right in their face.
[/QUOTE]
Or, best yet, we could let supply and demand solve the whole thing. As fuel gets more and more expensive, people will demand more energy efficient power consumption in their homes and cars. I’m considering buying a hybrid, not because I think I’ll be “saving the earth”(although I am not opposed to cleaner running vehicles, I think they are a great idea, and all things being equal I’ll opt for the cleaner burning/more efficient choice), but because gas is so bloody expensive. The problem is that hybrids are much more expensive than regular cars, the fuel savings is canceled out by the increased cost of the vehicle. I expect this to change over the next few years, and then I will likely purchase one. This approach will get a lot more results a lot faster (IMO) than ham handed, ill-thought-out government regulations or Chicken Little “The sky is falling!!” global warming fear mongering.
Weirddave - but if market forces were enough, the average savings seen by households using programmable thermostats are such that they should be nearly universally installed by now. There have been numerous serious studies done showing their benefit, and I recall Una Persson’s own casual study of one case - her own house after the installation. And the savings are considerable.
But the information isn’t being acted upon. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider what can be done on a public policy level to encourage what would seem to be obvious, logical decisions. Frankly, it makes at least as much sense as a one-time payment to the majority of the population to “stimulate the economy.”
WeirdDave, the problem with environmental issues are that they are externalities. The economic system in general doesn’t account for them. If you can figure out a way to bring them into the economy then there is a lot more reason to believe market forces will work.
[QUOTE=Ferret Herder]
The local NBC affiliate’s coverage said that a number of the big buildings in Chicago should have decreased electricity usage in the future due to this event encouraging the building managers to re-evaluate their nighttime lighting situations and turning off unnecessary lights - not just for an hour, but in general.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, they’ll do that. And if a Chicago sports team makes it into the playoffs they’ll “forget” about turning off lights and instead will turn them on in a pattern to spell out GO SOX or something like that. Or when Christmas rolls around again they’ll “forget” and arrange the office lights to look like a tree (with the requisite red and green lights rimming the top of the building, of course).
This was a crock. It was just another feel good moment for people who are concerned just enough about the environment to say something but not willing to inconvenience themselves unnecessarily. Our landscape is polluted? Let’s have Earth Day ™ once a year and go clean up river banks and parks. Our rain forests are being cut down? We’ll plant a tree on Arbor Day. Heaven knows that we don’t want to get out of our SUVs any more than usual and possibly get our hands dirty.
Oh wait. This was supposed to “raise global awareness”. I thought Al “ManBearPig” Gore had already made us abundantly aware through his PowerPoint presentation, world tour, books, TV appearances, infomercials and interpretive dance recitals. Didn’t he receive some kind of award for telling people that the sky was falling?
If I seem a little cynical about this load of tripe, you are right. It’s another case of style before substance. Wear a ribbon to show you care about a cause but don’t actually get out and help the people afflicted. Gripe about the current political situations (especially on certain message boards) but refuse to get involved or, heaven forbid, vote. I would have been impressed if all of LA, including Malibu and Beverly Hills, had gone completely dark. Until that happens, I’ll keep a light on in the window.
WeirdDave, the problem is that many environmental effects are externalities. The market doesn’t do anything with those. The most interesting environmental strategies IMHO have been the ones that try to bring these effects into the economic system. Cap n’ trade, carbon offsets, etc. As more become “accounted” for, there’s more reason to rely on the market. But clearly it isn’t a total solution, and phrases like “fuel gets more expensive” don’t incorporate the full cost of fuel.
My fiancee thought it would be cool to observe Earth Hour during the party we had that night. (It was, as far as ambience goes.)
However, she also went out and bought a bunch of plastic cups and plates, even though I asked her not to and promised that I’d do the dishes.
“You really want to have people standing around in the dark for an hour, eating their hors douvres off disposableware?”
“Okay, fine. Sheesh!”
Ha.
They say it’s the thought that counts, but I tend to favour thoughts in aggregate.
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
Weirddave - but if market forces were enough, the average savings seen by households using programmable thermostats are such that they should be nearly universally installed by now. There have been numerous serious studies done showing their benefit, and I recall Una Persson’s own casual study of one case - her own house after the installation. And the savings are considerable.
But the information isn’t being acted upon. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider what can be done on a public policy level to encourage what would seem to be obvious, logical decisions. Frankly, it makes at least as much sense as a one-time payment to the majority of the population to “stimulate the economy.”
[/QUOTE]
You raise a good point, and it’s ironically one of the few positive things I see coming from the increased press the warm mongers are getting: people are becoming more aware, and the demand for green products and services is growing. However, I also think that we are just starting to get to the point where the pain is starting to be acute, again, I’ll use your link and myself as an example. I have been aware of programmable thermostats and the energy savings they can bring for years of course, but frankly my BGE bill has never been all that large, just paying it has never been a chore. Now, however, I have suffered the double whammy of increased energy costs and Governors Spendending and Owe’Malley’s disgraceful energy policies; my bill has more than doubled recently, that kind of an increase has made me sit up and take notice. Then here you come along with your link above reminding me of what I already know but am finally motivated to act upon. Guess what I’m going shopping for tonight? 
That’s the pattern I see this following, we (Americans) haven’t had it bad at all until very, very recently; compared to the rest of the world we don’t have it bad now. As energy costs continue to rise, and especially if our economy dips into a recession-maybe-depression, demand for energy efficient lights, thermostats, cars, etc…is going to spike as individuals look to save money. A beneficial side effect of all of this is that as more and more of these devices are put into use, our overall carbon footprints will go down as well, helping the environment. It’s a win/win situation.
[QUOTE=muttrox]
Why don’t you figure out how much energy his various efforts have saved the world and post back when you have the accounting worked out.
[/QUOTE]
Next to nil in Bangkok, according to the local news. Bangkok was a participating city.
[/QUOTE]
World. Not Bangkok, World.
[QUOTE=muttrox]
World. Not Bangkok, World.
[/QUOTE]
No doubt it worked wonders everywhere else. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=muttrox]
World. Not Bangkok, World.
[/QUOTE]
It was a complete waste of time in all the Australian cities that participated, and judging by the complete lack of “Yay for Earth Hour!” stuff we’ve heard since then I’m going to conclude that, overall, the entire exercise was an abysmal failure for the most part.
[QUOTE=Siam Sam]
No doubt it worked wonders everywhere else. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
Rolling eyes is fine, but avoids the point. You can’t bitch about all the energy Gore uses unless you also credit him for the work he’s done that reduces it. There are probably millions of people and quite a few corporations who reduced their energy profile due to his work. It’s simply dishonest to pretend that doesn’t exist. You can’t do cost-benefit snark without the benefits. It wasn’t his Futurama guest shots that won him the Nobel Prize.